Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod

António Marques · 12 Aug 2010, 23:21 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

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From: entonio at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?QW50w7NuaW8gTWFycXVlcw==?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 00:21:04 +0100
Subject: (urth) Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod
In-Reply-To: <921279.6662.qm at web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <921279.6662.qm at web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C6481E0.7030401 at gmail.com>

DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
> I have neither said nor asserted any of those things.
>
> Please don't confuse my posts with Lee's. I like his approach sometimes,
> but we often reach opposite conclusions.

I don't think I'm confusing you, but I was under the impression you 
agreed here. If not, what's your view of

1) Who created the Hieorgrammates?
2) What's the 'multiverse structure'?
3) Is Urth Earth?

> Do you have any thoughts at all about why the Hieromakers were
> homologues rather than human beings, outside your interpretation of
> Tzadkiel's speech?

Homologues to Severian's race. My guess is that if *we* work hard 
enough, we'll be them. Not a matter of multiple futures; the fact that 
we may eventually be them doesn't change that we'll have to have all the 
hard work.

As I said, I don't think strong conlusions can be had from the text or 
interviews. I have only the other considerations and as I see it the 
text kind of agrees with them. Urth just looks like an alternate rather 
than the real Earth.

>
> --- On *Thu, 8/12/10, Ant?nio Marques /<entonio at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Ant?nio Marques <entonio at gmail.com>
>     Subject: Re: (urth) Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod
>     To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
>     Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 4:28 PM
>
>     DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
>      > Right here, giving reasons ...
>
>     Which are no more real than their contraries.
>
>      > I agree that the homologue interpretation is valid. I don't see any
>      > confirming reason for it outside an analysis of Tzadkiel's
>     remarks. All
>      > there is, is pushing the explanation farther and farther away: well,
>      > there's ANOTHER universe with ANOTHER race, and THEY created
>     YESOD, and ...
>
>     Which actually is said in the text. Of course, the text may mean
>     otherwise.
>
>     You and Lee seem interested in not having more than two universes,
>     Briah and Yesod. Others see little sense in that idea.
>
>     Nor do I see where does youse 'Yesod is our universe' fit, unless
>     it's a parallel interpretation.
>
>      > I think that the homologue interpretation is unlikely and the
>     identity
>      > interpretation correct for the reasons I have given, and is supported
>      > according to the reasons I have given.
>      >
>      > Imagine a ghost story that ends, "The ghost was ... MYSELF!"
>      >
>      > Now imagine one that ends, "The ghost was ... some guy I never
>     met! Over
>      > there ... somewhere."
>      >
>      > Which one does Wolfe pick, over and over?
>
>     This seems to me to fit into the 'I like this architecture better
>     than others so it is more likely' category. Certainly you're free to
>     think that way, but you'll have to accept it doesn't necessarily
>     constitute evidence for anyone else. I, for one, am simply trying to
>     make sense of the text, not of what I think the text should or
>     aspires to be. The fact that many people don't find your reading
>     convincing doesn't preclude it, but indicates that it is neither
>     universal nor obvious.
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