Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod

David Stockhoff · 13 Aug 2010, 02:01 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:01:37 -0400
Subject: (urth) Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod
In-Reply-To: <4C6481E0.7030401 at gmail.com>
References: <921279.6662.qm at web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C6481E0.7030401 at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C64A781.4040003 at verizon.net>

I don't know.

Ant?nio Marques wrote:
>
> I don't think I'm confusing you, but I was under the impression you 
> agreed here. If not, what's your view of
>
> 1) Who created the Hieorgrammates?
> 2) What's the 'multiverse structure'?
> 3) Is Urth Earth?
>
>> Do you have any thoughts at all about why the Hieromakers were
>> homologues rather than human beings, outside your interpretation of
>> Tzadkiel's speech?
>
> Homologues to Severian's race. My guess is that if *we* work hard 
> enough, we'll be them. Not a matter of multiple futures; the fact that 
> we may eventually be them doesn't change that we'll have to have all 
> the hard work.
>
> As I said, I don't think strong conlusions can be had from the text or 
> interviews. I have only the other considerations and as I see it the 
> text kind of agrees with them. Urth just looks like an alternate 
> rather than the real Earth.
>
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 8/12/10, Ant?nio Marques /<entonio at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>>     From: Ant?nio Marques <entonio at gmail.com>
>>     Subject: Re: (urth) Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod
>>     To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
>>     Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 4:28 PM
>>
>>     DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
>>      > Right here, giving reasons ...
>>
>>     Which are no more real than their contraries.
>>
>>      > I agree that the homologue interpretation is valid. I don't 
>> see any
>>      > confirming reason for it outside an analysis of Tzadkiel's
>>     remarks. All
>>      > there is, is pushing the explanation farther and farther away: 
>> well,
>>      > there's ANOTHER universe with ANOTHER race, and THEY created
>>     YESOD, and ...
>>
>>     Which actually is said in the text. Of course, the text may mean
>>     otherwise.
>>
>>     You and Lee seem interested in not having more than two universes,
>>     Briah and Yesod. Others see little sense in that idea.
>>
>>     Nor do I see where does youse 'Yesod is our universe' fit, unless
>>     it's a parallel interpretation.
>>
>>      > I think that the homologue interpretation is unlikely and the
>>     identity
>>      > interpretation correct for the reasons I have given, and is 
>> supported
>>      > according to the reasons I have given.
>>      >
>>      > Imagine a ghost story that ends, "The ghost was ... MYSELF!"
>>      >
>>      > Now imagine one that ends, "The ghost was ... some guy I never
>>     met! Over
>>      > there ... somewhere."
>>      >
>>      > Which one does Wolfe pick, over and over?
>>
>>     This seems to me to fit into the 'I like this architecture better
>>     than others so it is more likely' category. Certainly you're free to
>>     think that way, but you'll have to accept it doesn't necessarily
>>     constitute evidence for anyone else. I, for one, am simply trying to
>>     make sense of the text, not of what I think the text should or
>>     aspires to be. The fact that many people don't find your reading
>>     convincing doesn't preclude it, but indicates that it is neither
>>     universal nor obvious.
>>     _______________________________________________
>

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