Standard Wolfean Riddle

David Stockhoff · 13 Aug 2010, 18:11 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:11:34 -0400
Subject: (urth) Standard Wolfean Riddle
In-Reply-To: <0542F1EE-1D99-4671-9E9E-B80B19CF8C11 at liftingfaces.com>
References: <SNT123-W6197C26BEFD9A437D4C725CF980 at phx.gbl>	<4C65544B.7080301 at gmail.com>
	<0542F1EE-1D99-4671-9E9E-B80B19CF8C11 at liftingfaces.com>
Message-ID: <4C658AD6.5020902 at verizon.net>

"I thought it was pretty clear that (as far as Severian knows and can 
guess), and as far as Apheta's words and Malrubius's, that the 
hierogrammates were NOT created by Urthlings."

That's far from settled---at least around these here parts, mister!

Ryan Dunn wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Ant?nio Pedro Marques wrote:
>
>   
>> Lee Berman wrote (13-08-2010 07:52):
>>
>>     
>>> So, did Urth's race of humans create the Hierogrammates or some other,
>>> cognate race? Is it possible to say? Is one more answer more likely than
>>> another?
>>>       
>> I don't even think it matters much.
>> Certainly the whole purpose of the New Sun is to give Urth's humans a chance to create some kind of Hierogrammates.
>> But whether those Hierogrammates or others is another matter.
>> Generally, 'Human', 'Hiero', 'Hieorgrammate' seem to refer to roles rather than specific races in specific settings. But they can also be used to refer to specific races in specific settings, given context.
>> Some answers are mor elikely than others, but I don't think they will come out of a discussion of these passages.
>>     
>
>
> I thought it was pretty clear that (as far as Severian knows and can guess), and as far as Apheta's words and Malrubius's, that the hierogrammates were NOT created by Urthlings.
>
> As I mentioned earlier, the most "poetic" interpretation, and still plausible, is that Earthlings created the hierogrammates, meaning Earthlings were the Hierarchs. The reason this is appealing is because it suggests that with the bringing of the New Sun, Severian may have imploded and rebirthed Briah all together, and in Apheta's own words... "It may be that from your ancient Urth, reborn, that the Hieros will come. I believe it to be so."
>
> If the anvil the hierogrammates strike against is the need for life, then we sense a dependency on Severian and his actions, with relation to the hierogrammates and their future perhaps.
>
> Furthermore, can we guess whether Severian fathers a child with Apheta? And if so, back to poetry, might that child be the creature the hierogrammates were aiming to procreate all along? Which means, is Severian the ideal Urthling sent to Yesod to bring the New Sun, and give the hierogrammates new life in a very literal sense?
>
> ...ryan
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