The Two Katharines

Ryan Dunn · 16 Aug 2010, 19:58 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: ryan at liftingfaces.com (Ryan Dunn)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:58:37 -0400
Subject: (urth) The Two Katharines
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W192AAF7F3615969A278CCDCF9B0 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W192AAF7F3615969A278CCDCF9B0 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0C103E22-3021-48D5-BD65-D7621E3E7C14 at liftingfaces.com>


On Aug 16, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Lee Berman wrote:

> Sigh, yes, thank you for getting the basic idea of Dave Tallman's theory, Ryan.
> I was about to give up trying amidst all the misunderstandings. Perhaps that
> would have been the best course of action anyway.

Ha!


> That's the idea. A sword that is twice described as made from light materials 
> (batten and tinsel) is later described as very heavy. Yes, the old hilt could 
> be heavy but if Severian is knocked off balance by lifting it, a heavy blade 
> seems a more likely culprit. The physics of that should be clear.

- Or Severian was tipsy himself, and the hilt was indeed heavy.


> The suggestion Dave (I think it was him) made is that the maid was a khaibit, 
> she was really beheaded but a trick allowed another, identical khaibit to
> take her place, thus allowing real blood to be used as the chrism, thus 
> requiring Severian to observe his mother (in clone form) being killed over and 
> over all his life, and eventually having him kill her himself. I don't know
> what the purpose of that might be. Perhaps a literary contrast to him resurrecting 
> his grandmother.

- So two khaibits, one of them killed behind closed doors to provide blood for the event? Why not pig's blood? what would the difference be to the viewer? The difference to the guild is immense, use the blood of the animal slayed for the feast, or kill some prostitute who the torturers never see for theatrics?


> The appeal to it is found in Dr. Talos' play. We have a (presumably) exultant 
> Contessa named Carina (a form of Catherine) who has three maids, all with saint
> names of women who were beheaded. Anything which adds meaning to that confusing
> play is interesting to me.

- Sure, behead a thousand Katharines, but does Severian believe the beheaded Saint just gets up of her own accord? Severian seems to be under the impression that he knows the mechanics of the stagecraft at hand, and plays along as best as he can. That includes the fake beheading.


> I also find the theory interesting because it can be tied to my perception that
> the woman Severian sees on the Path of Air (Contessa's Road of Air) is related to
> the woman in the grave from the first few pages of the story and Catherine.

- I'm prone to wild theories (See "Agia as Robot") but this seems to be retrofitting a theory, and bending a lot of the rules of narration in order to achieve some sense of resolution in doing so.

- The Feast of Holy Katharine does not involve a woman dying, and until some better evidence comes along proving otherwise, I refuse to believe it.

REFUSE! I say.

:)

...ryan

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net