Standard Wolfean Riddle

David Stockhoff · 18 Aug 2010, 03:49 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:49:45 -0400
Subject: (urth) Standard Wolfean Riddle
In-Reply-To: <4C693AA0.4090309 at gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <4C6B5859.5050209 at verizon.net>

Fair enough. I'm with James on this, but what you say seems valid.

However, while Severian comes late, the Conciliator does not.

Ant?nio Pedro Marques wrote:
> David Stockhoff wrote (16-08-2010 12:49):
>> This shift in focus to the universes might be a way out from a sticky
>> problem, but you seem to propose that each Jesus is identically
>> Jesus-like but not necessarily identically effective. Why are some
>> Jesuses less effective? Why do some fail utterly?
>
> It's not a problem with the Jesuses, it's the world that doesn't live 
> up to them. The idea is that ultimately there is free will, and God's 
> creatures may will themselves into damnation. It's not like we're not 
> going down that route ourselves. At a certain point, the 
> responsibility of salvation becomes the creatures'.
>
>> Do some die before the
>> age of 5? Are some run over by a chariot while chasing a ball into the
>> street?
>
> No, because then their mission wouldn't be accomplished.
>
>> Also, if each universe gets one Jesus, and the Conciliator is not one of
>> them (but rather an attempt to fill a void where there should be one),
>
> No, I'm saying that "parallel worlds different in detail" + 
> "conciliator" = red herring suggesting "conciliator is the local 
> Jesus", but in my view not even a very convincing one. I find it 
> obviously red and herring-like. Of course, Wolfe could give an 
> interview tomorrow and say things that show I'm completely wrong.
>
>> this brings back the question of whether there was one in Severian's
>> Briah, does it not?
>
> I said there was one. The church he built disappeared from sight. 
> Whether that means that it went underground or is trapped in some 
> unknown corner of Urth is open to question. The issue is that Jesus 
> promised the church he was founding would not fail, so it just can't 
> be the cult of the Conciliator. It is open to debate what 'not fail' 
> means here, but it certainly isn't a guarantee of immediate permanent 
> worlwide triumph.
>
> I can't see why God would send a 'better' Jesus to a given universe. 
> Also, I think Severian comes too late in History to be the local Jesus.
>
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