Severian's Journey: Happenstance or Masterplan?

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 19 Aug 2010, 19:25 · from 2010-August.txt.gz

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From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:25:53 -0700
Subject: (urth) Severian's Journey: Happenstance or Masterplan?
In-Reply-To: <E94559E0-576B-4BA3-9501-A2DAB50CF95A at liftingfaces.com>
References: <BFB7DCA7-7A0B-401A-BC17-24E1B186FE6F at liftingfaces.com>
	<AANLkTi=nekbeDmGMUhvy41j02M17YUnRR6VWZFRC95G3 at mail.gmail.com>
	<E94559E0-576B-4BA3-9501-A2DAB50CF95A at liftingfaces.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikm86R_FN-7B5Dxekpjf19hwmaGZCT9Bqr=0rqz at mail.gmail.com>

Ryan,

I disagree with nothing you say below, and yet I suspect we disagree
on what it means. Severian and his life are manipulated by the
Hierofoos, to be sure; but only within the context that he freely
chooses what they ultimately want. I further suggest that the
Hierofoos are themselves manipulated by higher beings, if not the
Increate Himself, and that the whole thing is the design of the
Increate.

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Ryan Dunn <ryan at liftingfaces.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
>
>>> the only way to control something is to tie strings to it and
>>> make it perform as you wish.
>>
>> Here I disagree. You can control something the way you control a dog,
>> by understanding what motivates the dog and providing it with the
>> correct stimuli. It is still free to choose its responses -- but
>> _being a dog_, it will almost inevitably respond as you want. Given
>> that the Increate understands our motivations (infinitely) better than
>> we understand a dog's, the Increate can motivate a given human
>> perfectly _without violating that human's freedom_.
>>
>> Thus the "paradox" of free will vs. predestination dissolves.
>
>
> I just can't help but look at the mandragora near the end of Citadel as a parallel to Severian. I think there is more experimentation and controlled variables than you might. I want to say there is chance and free will, but at the same time, everything that happens is perpetual, meaning he must reach a certain destination at a certain time in order for certain things to happen, thus leading to more things, until he is at Yesod chatting it up with Apheta about whether he will pass or fail "the test" he had been born to take.
>
> ...ryan
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-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes

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