Typee, incidentally

David Stockhoff · 14 Nov 2010, 03:52 · from 2010-November.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:52:25 -0500
Subject: (urth) Typee, incidentally
In-Reply-To: <819FE4531DFC44AE89668B8BCC23ADB4@jill>
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	<819FE4531DFC44AE89668B8BCC23ADB4@jill>
Message-ID: <4CDF5CF9.7040604 at verizon.net>

Gerry

I don't entirely follow, perhaps because I abandoned the 
Hierodules-as-actual-angels idea long ago.

Urth is obviously far from innocent (and so were the Marquesans and 
Hawaiians), but your distinction between Hierodules and those undersea 
powers isn't critical to my point, which was to suggest a resemblance to 
(and potential literary precedent for) Wolfe's moral problem in 
Melville's in Typee. I don't propose a one-to-one correspondence. It's 
more complex than that.

To clarify: if the actions of evil powers do the work of the Increate 
(and this principle is stated everywhere in TBotNS), then the 
enslavement of Ascians does the work of the Increate even though the 
Hierodules, who believe they are doing the work of the Increate, do not 
themselves enslave. Maybe this principle needs a name so it doesn't 
require constant restating!

This is not to suggest a moral equivalence between Hierodules and Abaia, 
of course. But I do agree that the colonial relationship is almost 
entirely "missionary" in nature, not imperial. On the Hierodules' side 
at least, not necessarily Abaia's---but perhaps for Abaia as well.

(Who knows? How can you tell when aliens are truly evil? Obviously 
killing and enslaving humans is not really enough evidence, because we 
humans do that all the time.)

On 11/13/2010 3:12 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> From: "David Stockhoff" <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>> In other words, the Hierodules treat Urth like an island of savages, 
>> and their "uplifting" efforts are not too different from the 
>> "missionary work" that corrupts and enslaves the islanders, in 
>> Melville's view. If this is not immediately apparent, perhaps is it 
>> partly because we are not accustomed to seeing ourselves as the 
>> savages in a colonial situation.
>
> I'm not convinced - the Commonwealth may be bad, but the country of 
> the Ascians would appear to be worse.  If Urthlings are corrupted and 
> enslaved by the Hierodules, it is more down to earlier actions i.e. 
> the introduction of a black hole into the Sun. And the Ascians seem to 
> be worse enslaved by the undersea powers.
>
> Of course you can if you want wrap up the current business and the 
> earlier chastising of Urth as a combination of missionary work and 
> more direct colonisation/subjugation. Or, if you like, the mission is 
> the whole purpose of the colonisation - Urth is not the source of 
> farmland, or spices, or slaves.
>
> I tend towards the view that the Hierodules are on the right side in 
> the Cosmic struggle; if they were merely human we could indeed be very 
> suspicious of their motives, but I do not think they are intended to 
> be.  Of course, that is just what one of theire dupes would be 
> expected to think, but still... as I noted before, we haven't seen 
> anything at all to make us think the other side is good.
>
> - Gerry Quinn
>
>
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