Dionysus

Gerry Quinn · 06 Dec 2010, 21:24 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: gerryq at indigo.ie (Gerry Quinn)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 21:24:50 -0000
Subject: (urth) Dionysus
References: <SNT123-W20BDD61602D74BCB083B52CF250 at phx.gbl>	<4CF539F4.8020009 at gmail.com><00bc01cb9123$0844ca80$c7d24a0c@rclackey>	<4CF65AB8.1020803 at gmail.com><761933AF32AE497CA230737B669A6999@jill>	<4CF6832E.2030509 at gmail.com>	<9E60582E6CBB4D9492830BD6024C7A5E@jill><4CF803BA.7010406 at gmail.com>	<4CF9BE63.2010900 at sky.com><66B6396492E34CF9AFA0336A19B41875@jill>	<4CFAC339.9060900 at gmail.com><65D94824C7E148869B57AC76EC64526B@jill>	<4CFAD855.3050200 at gmail.com><A5059297D2A84745B534CC028F5237CF@jill>
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Message-ID: <7107D52F7B594F2E994D776AA6F814D4@jill>

For some reason reason to with formatting I can't interleave my response, so I'll have to top-post.

> You might as well ask why it is legitimate for merely human Horn to to cut
> a deal with the Neighbors on behalf of the whole human race. The answer is,
>  it wouldn't be.

Not for humans.  My assumption here was that the Neighbours have different customs related to such agreements; perhaps they are more communally-minded than humans. 

> HORN, the resurrected Horn, is the only being in the universe that is 100% 
> human and 100% Neighbor.

If your theory is true, he seems to me more like the Manchurian Candidate in this regard!

> He's much more of a legitimate CHRIST-figure

He's some kind of mystical figure all right, although I don't recall any incidents from the Gospels in which Jesus lured troops onto minefields, or raised vampires as terror weapons.  (Seems more like a bit of old Pas coming out to me.)

Also, he continues to worship the Outsider - how does that fit in?

- Gerry Quinn

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: James Wynn 
  To: The Urth Mailing List 
  Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 7:54 PM
  Subject: Re: (urth) Dionysus

    More coming. But I'll answer these questions right now:

    Gerry Quinn wrote:
    Also, doesn't it happen afterwards that the Neighbours turn over Blue to Horn in return for certain considerations, in his capacity as representative of the human race on Blue?  If Horn is really a Neighbourm how is this agreement legitimate? 

Roy C. Lackey wrote-
If the entity who
represented all humans was a Neighbor, not a human, then he was not a true
representative of the human race and was not qualified to speak on its
behalf.
  It is  ONLY legitimate _because_ HORN is _more_ than human. He-Pen-Sheep's people were in proximity to the Neighbor's on that island for decades, but there was no attempt to cut that deal. You might as well ask why it is legitimate for merely human Horn to to cut a deal with the Neighbors on behalf of the whole human race. The answer is, it wouldn't be. But it _would_ be if Horn were more than human and if you understand the concept of the "Mediator" -- I already explained that this is both an orthodox and gnostic Christian concept:
  "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." ~Timothy 2:5

  HORN, the resurrected Horn, is the only being in the universe that is 100% human and 100% Neighbor. He's the "Neighbor-man" as He-Pen-Sheep called him. This is why he alone can receive the planet from the hands of the Neighbors and why he alone can make an agreement with them--perhaps the Bible term covenant or testament better--on behalf of the humanity. 

  You don't have to go too far _to go too far_ when comparing Severian to Jesus. But in the case of the Rajan, it keeps slamming you in the face. He's much more of a legitimate CHRIST-figure. Not equivalent to Christ as Aslan is, but none-the-less.
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