Urth Net

← back to the conversation

dog-ape (was: Re: Who's Right)

Jane Delawney · 07 Dec 2010, 02:57 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: jane_delawney at sky.com (Jane Delawney)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 02:57:52 +0000
Subject: (urth) dog-ape (was: Re:  Who's Right)
In-Reply-To: <4CF9D63D.2090605 at io.com>
References: <SNT123-W3FD773CA84F6E35FA5BDBCF280 at phx.gbl>	<3ABE16A40B1B495F9B91F48E2ACB322E@jill>	<ADB4A254-C032-4F32-BBD0-0BA853D206B7 at liftingfaces.com>	<4784BBE24C1C4B6B979F180EDD4ADCB9@jill>	<BCD451A7-2409-4F04-8D50-D297AF9F9B8D at liftingfaces.com>	<4CF9A71B.70006 at io.com>	<F2589A2B-E694-436E-8F49-29D706FB719E at liftingfaces.com>
	<4CF9D63D.2090605 at io.com>
Message-ID: <4CFDA2B0.8010907 at sky.com>

On 04/12/10 05:48, Jeff Wilson wrote:
> On 12/3/2010 8:58 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote:
>> If you visualize the dog-ape in the lazaret and the red ape in the 
>> jungle in terms of how you would film their presence, there is no 
>> escaping the reality is that both of these creatures are very clearly 
>> watching/spying on Severian.
>>
>> I find that, as well, to be significant.
>>
>> ...ryan
>
> I hadn't included those as characters. I suppose that is a prejusdice 
> on my part ingrained form being lambasted by my 9th grade English 
> teacher for considering the dog in "There Will Come Soft Rains" a 
> character, since it's an animal in a famously characterless story.
>
> I imagine the watching apes are covert aquastors, which is rather more 
> sporting than making them invisible. Their lack of invisibility like 
> aquastor Triskele might mean they are agents of a faction with a less 
> skilled operator or poorer equipment.
>
Just re-reading BoTLS and wonder now at the reason for the inclusion of 
a 'dog-headed ape' in the list of creatures viewed by Silk right near 
the start of the story when he still believes he needs to perform a 
sacrifice in order to say a proper 'thank-you' to the Outsider.

The cynocephalus isn't even close to being the creature Silk wants to 
buy, and could have been dismissed in a few words like the sheep; but 
instead it's described in some detail (trained to act as link-boy and 
bodyguard, this adding to its value and to its desirability, in the 
value-system of Viron, as a potential sacrifice) and of course there's 
the standout feature that it is a fantasy animal in a market of mostly 
real-world creatures.

(Yes, IMO an ape with the head of a dog - ! - is a tad more fantastic 
than a monkey that can make a few human-like vocalizations, let alone 
than a talking night-chough.)

The last time I came across a dog-headed ape in any of these books was 
at the barracks of the Blue Dimarchi near the Sanguinary Field, as Ryan 
points out. Severian first thinks he's delirious and seeing things, then 
realises that this fantastical-looking creature is actually quite real. 
The significance of this episode isn't explored at all at the time - but 
then one meets all the various other ape-like beings in the story.

What the heck?

JD


An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net