Dionysus

Gerry Quinn · 09 Dec 2010, 22:53 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: gerryq at indigo.ie (Gerry Quinn)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:53:08 -0000
Subject: (urth) Dionysus
References: <SNT123-W65D3EA4F11C803A59948C7CF2E0 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A6E152BE7B344F35B8318BAC8F861923@jill>

From: "Lee Berman" <severiansola at hotmail.com>
>
>>Gerry Quinn- I thought the claim was that Dionysius is sometimes called 
>>'god of vines',
>>and Wolfe, being American, might have interpreted this to mean lianas 
>>rather >
> than grape vines?  As I said, it seems unlikely to me.
>
> No, you have interpreted incorrectly but I don't think it is your fault. I 
> will try my best
> to explain.
>
> 1. Liana is not a word most Americans are familiar with. When we want to 
> talk about lianas we
> would normally say "vines". Uneducated Americans may not ever have heard 
> of the word liana.
> Forgive me for speaking for others when I say NOBODY here thinks Gene 
> Wolfe is uneducated
> or is unfamiliar with the word liana. But it is our secondary word for 
> that object. Vine
> is primary.
>
> 2. The suggestion is that Gene Wolfe, in associating Dionysus with 
> parasitic lianas, is not
> misinterpreting but engaging in word play as he often does. Nobody here 
> thinks Gene Wolfe
> is confused as to the meanings of "Theseus" and "thesis" but some think he 
> is engaging in
> word play there. Nor do we think Gene Wolfe is a dunce who thinks the 
> mother of Romulus and
> Remus, Rhea Silvia, was named for a Bird Of The Woods. Word play again.

I think this would be a somewhat obscure word-game.  To get it one would 
have to identify Dionysus as the son of Thyone, and then *misread* his 
association with vines - in other words, see him called 'god of vines' and 
not realise that this meant grape vines.  Is this word-play supposed to be 
just a joke, or something useful to understanding the story?

Analogously, one might imagine a story by an English writer which refers 
obliquely but specifically to Batman, but in which a clue to the unstated 
meaning of the story is the concept of a hero who hits criminals with a 
cricket bat.

One cannot account for the thought processes inspiring an author, but these 
would seem strange ways in which to present clues to readers.

It is not important anyway.  If someone wants to believe the key to the 
Short Sun books is that the Outsider is the god of the inhumi (well he is, I 
suppose, but only in the sense of being the god of everyone), they will find 
a way to support it, with or without this line of argument.

> 3. If you are not American it is understandable that you might not 
> understand this particular
> example of word play involving Dionysus, vines and lianas. But I get it. 
> Other Americans get it.
> If you don't, you have the choice of being open to learning something new 
> or assuming that your
> view must be correct and others are likely wrong. I am interested in which 
> path you will choose.

I understand it.  I still don't think it's very likely, for the reasons 
stated above.

- Gerry Quinn

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