Dionysus

David Stockhoff · 10 Dec 2010, 01:55 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 20:55:47 -0500
Subject: (urth) Dionysus
In-Reply-To: <D261B1B804E24E66AAFA9F5F051C9456@jill>
References: <SNT123-W65D3EA4F11C803A59948C7CF2E0 at phx.gbl><A6E152BE7B344F35B8318BAC8F861923@jill>	<4D016184.8090602 at gmail.com>
	<D261B1B804E24E66AAFA9F5F051C9456@jill>
Message-ID: <4D0188A3.3000106 at verizon.net>

Allusion.

An *allusion* is a figure of speech that makes a reference to, or 
representation of, a place, event, literary work, myth 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology>, or work of art, either 
directly or by implication. M. H. Abrams defined allusion as "a brief 
reference, explicit or indirect, to a person, place or event, or to 
another literary work or passage".^[1] 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allusion#cite_note-0> It is left to the 
reader or hearer to make the connection (Fowler); where the connection 
is detailed in depth by the author, it is preferable to call it "a 
reference <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference>".

The god is present when humans take the blood of grapes into their 
bodies. James is right---there is no leap whatsoever. only a bit of a 
twist, an unexpected rotation in space that makes two cults seem to 
align for just a moment.

On 12/9/2010 7:16 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at gmail.com>
>>>> Lee Berman-
>>>> 2. The suggestion is that Gene Wolfe, in associating Dionysus with 
>>>> parasitic lianas, is not
>>>> misinterpreting but engaging in word play as he often does. Nobody 
>>>> here thinks Gene Wolfe
>>>> is confused as to the meanings of "Theseus" and "thesis" but some 
>>>> think he is engaging in
>>>> word play there. Nor do we think Gene Wolfe is a dunce who thinks 
>>>> the mother of Romulus and
>>>> Remus, Rhea Silvia, was named for a Bird Of The Woods. Word play 
>>>> again.
>>>
>>> Gerry Quinn-
>>> I think this would be a somewhat obscure word-game.  To get it one 
>>> would have to identify Dionysus as the son of Thyone,
>>
>> There's a real leap. That's about as obscure as identifying Cain and 
>> Able as the children of Eve. Or Mary as the mother of Jesus. Or 
>> Romulus as the child of Rhea Silvia.
>>
>>> and then *misread* his association with vines - in other words, see 
>>> him called 'god of vines' and not realise that this meant grape vines.
>>
>> Umm....I can't imagine why anyone would be expected to miss that 
>> association since the inhumi feed on the red, red wine of the human 
>> body. I guess unless the lianas (grape vines ARE lianas, btw) had 
>> humans growing on them and the inhuma extracted the blood by mashing 
>> the people with their feet, this would be just too hard an allusion 
>> for anyone to pick up on.
>
> Note that I was answering Lee, who seemed to be saying that this *was* 
> an American misreading.of the 'god of vines' concept.  You seem to be 
> saying the opposite.
>
> Also, wouldn't your analogy above (the inhumi feeding on human blood, 
> represented as wine) mean that it is the humans who are represented by 
> the lianas, not the inhumi?
>
> Lee seemed to be saying that Wolfe took Dionysus to be the god of 
> vines and thus by wordplay to parasitic plants, with the parasitism of 
> lianas being the connection to inhumi.
>
> - Gerry Quinn
>
>
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