Faterh Inire Theory cont.

Andrew Mason · 10 Dec 2010, 21:17 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com (Andrew Mason)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 21:17:21 +0000
Subject: (urth) Faterh Inire Theory cont.
Message-ID: <AANLkTim3FoVnWBPRg8oHkOdKcQwokiGJyWqEPtvx3chN at mail.gmail.com>

Gerry Quinn wrote:

> We don't see Tzadkiel's ship until _UotNS_. ?In BotNS, however, we see lots
> of ships, and indeed spend much time in them..

Gerry, I totlally agree with your general point that Tzadkiel's ship
isn't the only means of interstellar transport, but I'm worried about
some of the details.
>
> First there are the ships of the citatel, in one of which resides the Guild
> of Torturers. ?Conceivably these were only fit for transport within the
> Solar System, but there's no evidence either way.

They resemble the ships known as 'landers' in _Long Sun_ and _Short
Sun_, which suggests they are short-haul vessels. (Though perhaps they
were meant to link up with long-haul ones.)

 ?Typhon confirms that Urth
> at one time possessed many interstellar ships, on which many of his
> supporters fled.

But he may be lying - which is, in fact, Severian's first reaction to
him. . I'm always surprised by how ready people are to believe what he
says in that scene. If he had interstellar ships (which would have to
be faster-than-light, I think, to get between the stars in times that
would enable him actually to run an empire) it becomes puzzling what
was the significance of his launching the Whorl - which Wolfe has said
was intended to 'return humanity to the stars'.

> Jonas served on an interstellar ship which crashed on Urth a little north of
> Nessus. ?This ship became incorporated within the House Absolute; the
> Antechamber was part of it. ?It was equipped with a set of mirrors which
> apparently had interstellar capability. ?(These may or may not be the same
> ones used by Fr. Inire.)

Jonas was on an interstellar ship which crashed, certainly (which in
itself supports your point). There also seems to have been a ship
which crashed in the gorunds of the House Absolute, and whose
passengers became residents of the antechamber. I don't see any
evidence that it was the same ship - Jonas recognises the name 'Kim
Lee Soong' as one that would have been common in his youth, but
doesn't say 'Oh yes, he was an old mate of mine'. And I also don't see
any evidence that the antechamber was _part_ of the ship - I took it
that the passengers were found trespassing in the grounds of the House
Absolute, and thrown into the antechamber, as such people are. (I also
don't remember anything about Jonas's ship having mirrors, but I may
just be forgetting that.)

On the other hand: Vodalus talks about humans in the first empire
leaping between the stars, and even the galaxies, in their own ships
(not just as crew in ships commanded by Hierodules). Admittedly
Vodalus isn't the most reliable witness, but no one ever says he is
wrong; the dispute is about how those days can be brought back, not
about whether they existed.

Severian in _Urth_ mentions the ships putting into Port of Lune - I
don't get the impression they are just going to Verthandi and Skuld;
the question is raised whether Tzadkiel's ship is the only
long-distance one, but I think in this context Sirius, say, would not
count as long-distance.

Now there is a line where Sidero, quoting Tzadkiel, says 'There is
only one ship. All the ships we hail between the stars are this ship.'
This line is very mysterious, given how much else seems inconsistent
with it. (It might be the only such ship in Severian's time, but as it
travels through time that shouldn't be relevant.) Context doesn't help
much, since Sidero is in a confused state when he says it. I wonder if
it should really be taken in a more mystical sense as meaning 'this is
the archetypal ship; all the others are imitations of it'.

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