Pike, Rose, Blood

James Wynn · 13 Dec 2010, 22:51 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: crushtv at gmail.com (James Wynn)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:51:29 -0600
Subject: (urth) Pike, Rose, Blood
In-Reply-To: <785090.71670.qm at web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <101971.69374.qm at web84101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4D068DC3.20704 at gmail.com>
	<785090.71670.qm at web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4D06A371.10201 at gmail.com>

>>     James Wynn-
>>     The spear that pierced Christ's side.
>>
>
>> DAVID STOCKHOFF-
>> Pike as spear, not fish. Of course. I had to train myself to think 
>> "fish" just to learn the naming system.
>>
>
> James Wynn-
> > Another example of how one can live in their own world and think it 
> is universal.
> >Probably, it came easy to me because it is also so unnatural for me
> >to associate "pike" with fish. Not a common American term.
> Jerry Friedman-
> Common in Ohio where I grew up, though anglers were more likely to 
> shorten "northern pike" into "northern".  And there's a memorable pike 
> (fish) in /The Sword in the Stone/.

I'm a Buckeye too and I'd never heard the term pike or northern as a 
child. But after looking at wikipedia page on this, I had heard of a 
gator or jackfish (but then I didn't fish much from Lake Erie in the 
70s). Yeah, The Sword in the Stone was where i first learned the term 
"pike". And the name for the fish, comes from the spear.

> Jerry Friedman-
> By the way, if I'd remembered the story of Jesus being pierced in the 
> side well enough to remember the water, I might have wondered whether 
> Blood had a brother named Water (a chem?) or Plasma (sorry), but I 
> wouldn't have thought he /should/ have a twin.

Really? Hm...well, it's just that water and blood came out together and 
it seemed pretty emphatic that she only got pregnant once. And it seemed 
likely since Wolfe likes twins. I guess it's neither here nor there 
since no likely candidate presented himself-- someone fiftyish with a 
five letter name associated strongly with water...like "ceybu" (for 
water buffalo) or "crassipes" (for  water hyacinth) or maybe even a name 
that actually *means* water. But I did really expect a twin to turn up. 
Honestly, based solely on their relationship alone, I would have 
expected that guy to be Silk, but, again that doesn't work out.

> Andrew Mason-
> I also see it as hard to doubt (though of course Wolfe had already
> spoken when I read it). There are quite a few clues - for instance,
> Mint running away from Silk lest the same thing happen to her as
> happened to Rose.

I'm not convinced Mint knew about Blood. Actually, I rather think she 
didn't.

> Andrew Mason-
> I also find the 'bring a woman' thing less puzzling that you do - but
> I'll probably bring that up when I come to that point in my
> re-reading.

Cool!

> Andrew Mason-
> On the symbolic level, though, I wouldn't have made the same
> connection as you, because I associate roses more with Mary than with
> Jesus - and I would suspect that Wolfe does too.

Well, there is that prophecy regarding Mary in Luke 2 "And a sword will 
pierce your own soul too." If only it the father's name were a sword 
instead of a spear, we'd have it nailed. But, I don't believe Wolfe 
associates roses with just one thing. He famously associates them with 
the sun. I presume he associates it with a whorl. And Rose, with her 
associates Mint and Marble (myrtle) is associated colonization as well 
as with death. There's a twisted demonic Mary-thing going on with Rose, 
though, I admit.

u+16b9
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