The Outsider

Son of Witz · 16 Dec 2010, 20:57 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org (Son of Witz)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 12:57:34 -0800
Subject: (urth) The Outsider
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Message-ID: <54755BD6-DCD6-40C3-8821-F8769C7D98B1 at butcherbaker.org>



On Dec 16, 2010, at 12:39 PM, "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <danldo at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Son of Witz
> <Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> wrote:
> 
>> I do. The idea of multiple Incarnations is not only "not strictly
>> Orthodox Christianity," it is abhorrent to the idea that Jesus died
>> once _for all_. "All" is a big word, which I mostly try to avoid, but
>> it's unambiguously present in Scripture.
>> 
>> 
>> Wait.  That Jesus saved us once and for all is theological interpretation,
>> more than scripture, right?
> 
> As I said, it's unambiguously present in Scripture. For example,
> Hebrews 7:27: "Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to
> offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for
> the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when
> he offered himself." And 9:26: "Otherwise Christ would have had to
> suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared
> once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the
> sacrifice of himself."
> 
>> I think we can say that we are pretty sure the
>> man Jesus actually lived and preached in our universe, but it is only
>> theology and belief to say that his acts provided eternal salvation for the
>> residents of that universe. I mean, where is the proof of that? The proof
>> that he existed seems very real, but the rest is, sorry, speculation and
>> unverified Revelation.
> 
> You are right; the revelation of Scripture is unverified. And indeed I
> take a certain amount of it as not-literally-true (for example, the
> accounts of Genesis). But if we take it as, well, Scripture, then it
> is unambiguous that "his acts provided eternal salvation" for ALL. No
> other.
> 

Ok, then my point stands. Anything that interprets the visible actions and quoted staetments is Essentialy theological speculation. So it would be as possible to have multiple universes with jesus where none of them were ever saved because the revelation is not valid as it is to have multiple universes with one Jesus who saved them all forever because the revelation is right.
Without the answer to the question of the veracity of the theology, we aren't on solid ground to say one or the other MUST be.



>> From there we can say that there are clearly historical traces of the man
>> Jesus in the Chrasmalogical writings at the very least.
> 
> Where? The only Biblical quotes I recall in the C.W. are from the old testament.

In the chrasmalogical writings. Money changers and the scourge. A few habe been listed out in the last few days.

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