(no subject)

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 16 Dec 2010, 22:47 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:47:27 -0800
Subject: (urth) (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=CyXNNMfL7hiP2KoTFFr-14dvR0r7OWoQfbpAm at mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT123-W16D08B9FE0ACA25CE25D62CF140 at phx.gbl>
	<4D35F4794AE94278BA718E442C77D355@jill>
	<4D0A45DC.80902 at verizon.net>
	<9584549FDDAE461C89DC49B5A1F65AA7@jill>
	<4D0A625A.5060807 at verizon.net>
	<424AF04E-D90A-4970-B6D1-E0E4DB231B05 at butcherbaker.org>
	<4D0A655E.2000708 at verizon.net>
	<7BBB17B2-BC8A-48B9-AB2B-FF56AA024D0C at butcherbaker.org>
	<4D0A917D.4000200 at verizon.net>
	<AANLkTi=CyXNNMfL7hiP2KoTFFr-14dvR0r7OWoQfbpAm at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikwY9pRh32ffZB5DxfW0sCM6vO1OQct9_h_=CsH at mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com> wrote:

A bunch of good stuff with which I take mild exception only to this
one paragraph.

> Grace in the Christian sense doesn't seem to have existed before Christ's
> passion and resurrection.? The Torah seems to embody an accountant's
> approach to morality, with each transgression appearing in the debit column
> and requiring the sacrifice of a corresponding asset.? In comparison, the
> sacrifice of Christ is a general debt amnesty, a super-Jubilee if you will.

1) Grace existed before Christ's passion and resurrection, but it did
so as a result of Christ's passion and resurrection. Grace always
already can be extended to the "virtuous pagan" as well as people like
Moses, Elijah, etc.

2) I'm of Jewish descent, and if I were a practicing Jew (rather than
a rather poorly practicing Catholic) I would take strong offense at
your characterization of the Torah. That is a Christian's view of the
Torah, but not a Jew's.

3) Your soteriology is one common model but not the only one.

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net