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David Stockhoff · 17 Dec 2010, 01:01 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:01:17 -0500
Subject: (urth) (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1F23FC0BB7574F7CB247EC55A2A4F2A5@jill>
References: <SNT123-W16E45C1270148B9B9DC4A4CF150 at phx.gbl><DE835F10FA5D42CC84D33E26F422380D@jill>	<4D0A64DF.6020806 at verizon.net>
	<1F23FC0BB7574F7CB247EC55A2A4F2A5@jill>
Message-ID: <4D0AB65D.60702 at verizon.net>



On 12/16/2010 3:18 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Stockhoff" 
> <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>
>> I thought you wanted to argue from the text. You're arguing from 
>> Gerry's gut now.
>>
>> Christ is plainly NOT in the story. And this makes sense if we 
>> accept, as we have been told, that Urth is in a previous iteration, 
>> and Severian lives in the far future of that iteration (from our 
>> perspective).
>>
>> Christ will come in a future iteration, and these are all signs of 
>> his coming, just as the light from Apollo's face presaged it in our 
>> own part of the cycle.
>
> What you seem to be saying here is that this iteration features a 
> Jesus who is not Christ, although he acts and spoke as Christ did.  
> And since we have heard of Allah, presumably there is there is a 
> Mohammed, and he has pointed to the Increate. Mohammed may have been 
> functionally identical to that of our iteration, just like the Apollo 
> astronauts.  In fact most things seem to have been identical.  The 
> Increate is present, and rules over all iterations.
>
> The fundamental difference is that Jesus was not Christ, and therefore 
> the inhabitants of this universe, stuck with a dud Jesus, must make do 
> with Dionysus, who somehow prefigures Christ better than other deities 
> - is that a valid summary of what you are saying?
No. All of this is false, except that Al-Lah is mentioned and the 
Increate exists.
>
> Here are some reasons that spring to mind for doubting it:
>
> (1) Why should there not be an Incarnation in more than one iteration 
> of the universe?
I am baffled by this question. Why indeed?
>
> (2) Who is Jesus in this universe - and what happens him in ours?
Again, what?
>
> (3) What's the big deal about Dionysus?  He has a few symbols in 
> common with Christ, but not much else. He doesn't really seem to be 
> any kind of proto-Christ.
Dionysus is a strong allusion. Just like everything else in the books. I 
am beginning to understand---you may be taking this stuff too literally.
>
> (4) It's a SF seriese, not the foundational text of a new religion.
Bingo!
>
> - Gerry Quinn
>
>


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