Dionysus and the Outsider

Jerry Friedman · 17 Dec 2010, 04:39 · from 2010-December.txt.gz

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From: jerry_friedman at yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:39:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (urth) Dionysus and the Outsider
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-w30870333C96CEB56D62C64CF150 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-w30870333C96CEB56D62C64CF150 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <508063.83926.qm at web114704.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>

>>Jerry Friedman-  Sorry, I didn't read a lot of the posts about Dionysus, so I 
>>may be duplicating 
>>
<>something someone else said.  But people are saying that the Outsider was the 
son of Thyone, that 

>>is, Dionysus.  I read the passage quite differently.  Silk says there are two 
>>gods whose names are 
>>
>>unknown: the son of Thyone and the Outsider.  So they're two different gods.  
>>They're mentioned 
>>
>>together and have anonymity in common, though, so some might draw conclusions 
>>from that.
>
>I think you are missing something important. The above about the God of Wine and 
>Thyone takes place 
>
>in a theological lesson SilkHorn is giving to Hound. Later, after Hound has had 
>time to mull things 
>
>over, he asks Silk if it wouldn't make sense for the two unnamed gods to be the 
>same entity.  SilkHorn
>highly praises Hound's insightfulness and remarks that he may have already told 
>Hound too much.

You're right, I did miss that, so thanks.

I still think the Outsider is the Christian God and not Dionysus, and I like 
Craig Brewer's suggestions about how Silk's discussion relates to the Trinity.

I'm inclined to agree with those who say Jesus isn't in Briah.  I expect that 
Wolfe isn't violating what Dan'l says is orthodox Catholicism: the Incarnation 
was truly unique.  I'd give better than even money that if he thought about it, 
he'd say this was the last cycle in his fictional plan.  And if I'm wrong, I'd 
give better than even money that if he wrote a story in the universe after ours, 
it wouldn't need an Incarnation but would get by with ours.

 I'd explain the various echoes the way James Wynn would if he were inclined 
that way: echoes of what Wolfe believes happened in our universe.  They don't 
all have to refer to the same person.  After all, the Conciliator has 
resemblances to Jesus, but we know he's not a sinless man who also has a divine 
nature. The same could be true of the man who scourged the merchants in Briah, 
if he was more than a legend.

Anyway, thanks to all for interesting comments, including David Duffy's 
interpretation of the crippled hairless animals.

Jerry Friedman

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