Atlantis and Gondwanaland

David Stockhoff · 03 Jan 2011, 22:13 · from 2011-January.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:13:53 -0500
Subject: (urth) Atlantis and Gondwanaland
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W50B328FBD5B17A22FC8A2CF070 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W50B328FBD5B17A22FC8A2CF070 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4D224A21.6090504 at verizon.net>

I guess I'm thinking of a conscious Eternal Evil, not one that says "I 
am Evil" but one that, like Satan in Paradise Lost, is self-pitying and 
prideful and jealous and will do anything to gain power over others, 
even destroying the world so no one else can rule it. I don't think this 
kind of evil exists, because there is enough stupidity and callous 
ignorance in the world to explain all the symptoms of Eternal Evil. 
(Occam's Parsimonious Razor.)

The evil we see in Wolfe is human and rational (usually---you could make 
a case for the woman who turns her children into furniture). His 
characters are often ordinary people trying not to do evil, and who know 
the chance for evil lies within themselves. Those characters who do evil 
are often specifically described by Severian as being no or little worse 
than others who succeed in avoiding doing evil---just a little hungrier 
or more desperate. Baldanders' cruel experiments are an exception, but 
even he is not a devil; he does nothing to humans he would not do to 
himself. Typhon may have superpowers, but if he doesn't, the evil of his 
empire lies in his servants, not himself.

Occasionally, evil is distant and ambiguous. We may think of Cthulhu 
when we read of Abaia and Erebus, but isn't he really just a large 
hungry alien? It's not his fault if humans will betray other humans to 
supply him with dinner or if his emanations give sensitive people 
nightmares. While these creatures may be evil in the sense of being 
mostly appetite---and having no interest in the divine spark of 
humanity---whose intelligence goes toward luring prey the way a deep-sea 
fish lures smaller fish or a spider builds a web, I get no sense that 
these beings are any different. Just bigger and capable of defeating and 
eating humans.

Evil requires rationality. The Neighbors, being sentient, are therefore 
capable of evil.

On 1/3/2011 1:59 PM, Lee Berman wrote:
>
>> David Stockhoff: Well, you're consistent, Lee. ;) I wonder if "There is something essentially
>> evil in the essence of Creation." I think certainly there is something essentially evil in the
>> essence of Man. These are related but different; one calls for a Devil and the other does not.
>> I do not believe in an eternal Evil and I do not think Wolfe does either.
> We we on earth don't have any other Creations to compare to. (hmm..Gondwanaland predates the
> evolution of primates but I wonder it Wolfe thinks it corresponds with the evolution of
> consciousness. Surely evil is partly based on this attribute...nah, I guess not. If you are
> religious, you believe consciousness and intelligence predate the appearance of humanity..)
>
> Anyway, my suggestion of the universal evil inherent in Creation can be found on Blue/Green. Isn't
> there evidence that the evil of the Inhumi/Neighbors predates the appearance of human beings there?
>
> Of course this is balanced by the Whorl which is a Creation of an ostensibly pure evil guy and his
> nasty family of monsters but ends up having elements of good keep asserting themselves. Heck they
> can't even sustain human sacrifice! 		 	   		
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