the prime calcula/his citadel and other quotes

Craig Brewer · 20 Jan 2011, 21:46 · from 2011-January.txt.gz

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From: cnbrewer at yahoo.com (Craig Brewer)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (urth) the prime calcula/his citadel and other quotes
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W426AB0E49CEBA72E51D5C2CFF90 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W426AB0E49CEBA72E51D5C2CFF90 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <562239.62633.qm at web37608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Lee (and everyone else), can we stop the armchair psychologizing? I don't mean 
to single you out, but you seem to do it most often.

It doesn't matter if other people don't accept your readings. When you  share 
them, you send them out to the winds, and you can't control what  comes back. If 
people don't like your theories and point out problems  with with, you can 
listen to their reasons or ignore them.

What I don't like is when Gerry or Lee or whoever else (to be honest, I  stopped 
paying close attention to the back and forth) start projecting  motivations on 
each other rather than just talking about the readings.  That makes it personal, 
uncomfortable, and potentially offensive. In the  context of our little list, it 
doesn't matter WHY someone doesn't like  your theory. If they offer good reasons 
to see problems with it, then  that's that. If they don't, ignore them. But I 
think the desire to  constantly defend a position has the opposite effect of 
their intention:  it makes people ignore them rather than listen to them more 
closely,  especially when, and I'm sorry to single you out, Lee, you  start 
labeling people as gatekeepers or whatever, it sounds like  whining. The point 
of the list is to discuss Wolfe, not to provide moral support for everyone's 
personal investigations. If Roy or anyone else posts a good point but does it 
with complete and utter contempt for someone else, I don't care. I appreciate 
the point. We all have the power to filter the substance from the delivery. 
Meeting nice people is cool and all, but it's not why I'm here.

I guess my main point is that meta-discussion about why people are critical of 
others' ideas doesn't change my opinion of their ideas one bit. It just takes up 
space.

----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
To: urth at lists.urth.net
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 1:57:46 PM
Subject: (urth) the prime calcula/his citadel and other quotes

Marc Aramini:  
."very frustrating"  

>"it gets downright impossible to advance a discussion or even suggest a further 
>point"...

>"I won't argue anymore", 

>"there is no way we can advance to less concrete and more abstract discussions"  
>

>"If all the data is explained and fits, then I can't see how it can be 
>rationalized away"

>"Its just discouraging"

>"shutting up for a while."

These are discouraging, frustrating words to hear. 

I understand the psychology. Criticizing theories provides much more adrenaline 
to those who favor 

it than the guarded interest or agreement of others. So we see intense energy 
and thought and 

research being poured into rejection and lukewarm energy put into interest or 
agreement. This is
true of all theories, not just yours, Marc.

There is the psychology of the other side also. It is human nature to magnify 
criticism. All people
feel this way (despite their denials). Ten words of praise cannot overcome the 
sting from one word of
criticism and dismissal. (Parents here, please take that to heart)

I guess all I can do is offer encouragement and say I'm reading your theories 
and benefitting from 

them as I slowly digest them. I would feel a loss if you decided to shut up for 
a while.

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