Mystery of Ascia/Agia

Son of Witz · 21 Jan 2011, 19:06 · from 2011-January.txt.gz

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From: sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org (Son of Witz)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:06:48 -0500
Subject: (urth) Mystery of Ascia/Agia
In-Reply-To: <C5D8F333AA3B4D8AA91FC58B64A783AB@jill>
References: <AANLkTim+1KN+6tWRkW4gqaX_d=cLP-Ap_c3KZtoJXbSW at mail.gmail.com><9E5DCA03-6DA3-4F4E-9B5E-D7248A637A2B at butcherbaker.org>
	<4D393462.4040406 at io.com> <C5D8F333AA3B4D8AA91FC58B64A783AB@jill>
Message-ID: <3795a5618f4ca43f1c80948f61e53e4c.squirrel at email.fatcow.com>

On Fri, January 21, 2011 1:34 pm, Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> From: "Jeff Wilson" <jwilson at io.com>
>> On 1/20/2011 5:17 PM, Son of Witz wrote:
>>> On Jan 20, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Andrew Mason
>>> <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com
>>>> But each country has (allegedly) a natural type to which the people
>>>> living in it conform after twenty generations or so. So even if North
>>>> Americans are descended from people who now live in Asia, they
>>>> shouldn't look Asian.
>>>>
>>> Fair point.
>>> I don't know anything about that biological theory. Sounds very
>>> theoretical. I also wonder when that idea came into vogue. I don't
>>> expect/require Hard SF rules for this sort of thing, personally.
>>
>> It is pointedly brought up within Sev's memoirs on one or two occasions.
>> It's essentialy a restatment that among a population the traits most
>> suited to their environment will come to dominate.
>
> Unless variations are very small, the idea of a 'natural country type'
> conflicts with Dollo's Law which was discussed here a while ago.  Suppose
> a
> race evolves in Country A according to the 'natural' pattern, moves to
> Country B and after many generations adopts that country's natural type,
> and
> then moves back to Country A again.  If they go back to the original type,
> they are violating Dollo's Law.
>
> What should happen according to Dollo's Law is that they will evolve
> traits
> suited to life in Country A, but those traits will not be the original
> traits.  A country cannot have a single unique natural type.
>
> Suppose a tribe of Swedes moved to sub-Saharan Africa and lived an
> isolated
> existence for many generations.  They would probably develop a darker skin
> colour and other adaptations common to African peoples.. But they would
> never look like an African tribe who lived in the same place.
>
> - Gerry Quinn

Well, that seems obvious.
None of that says that if North American Ascians are decended from Asia
that they would lose there traits.  Yes, they would be different, as the
local gene pool, diet and climate will affect their appearance.  It
doesn't mean they would definitely lose traits like the distinctive eyes.
In fact, they could select for those eyes intentionally or even through
genetic engineering.

I see nothing that in the books that makes it impossible that the North
American Ascians could be descended from Asians. nothing.  Nothing says
they are either, but there is a distinct thematic parallel between Ascians
and the Myth of the Humanity with no Wild Side, which I consider strong
enough to be a suggestion.  Sure, discount it as "just a myth" rather than
"a history", but much of our important clues come from these myths.  In
fact, this same myth sets up the library of nessus, and usually people
discuss that history here as if it is not a myth.  I see further reason to
connect Kim Lee Soong to that Myth.

Again, all that said, there is nothing to suggest an Ascian connection to
Asia besides the Mystery of Kim Lee Soong and the clear fact that Ascians
are a communist metaphor written by a man who fought asian communists. 
There is nothing to suggest they have the "strange tilted eyes" of Agia,
so the idea of her as a spy for them is pretty flimsy since it was
spawned, in my mind, by connecting the eyes with my sense that they
descend from asians.  That said, I haven't yet seen an argument that makes
that impossible.

I've seen weaker connective thread on popular theories here.

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