Merger

James Wynn · 03 Feb 2011, 03:35 · from 2011-February.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: crushtv at gmail.com (James Wynn)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:35:17 -0600
Subject: (urth) Merger
In-Reply-To: <4D4A206B.3040500 at io.com>
References: <SNT123-W40DC31B47683B05C48C07ACFE40 at phx.gbl>	<4D49F4F0.9010706 at gmail.com>	<326DDE2D-B096-4AEC-B347-9E6FA2CBF5CE at butcherbaker.org>	<77952367-BB7B-4118-8392-C811FDDD9B0E at io.com>
	<4D4A206B.3040500 at io.com>
Message-ID: <4D4A2275.802 at gmail.com>


>>>> "Increate" means "not created". "Pancreator" means "creator of 
>>>> all". It seems logically inconsistent that these could be separate 
>>>> persons.
>>>
>>> I have understood them to mean the same thing. The Uncreated Creator 
>>> of All made the Creation.
>>
>> What he said.  "Increate" is like "Prime Mover"--there is only one 
>> such thing, and it is the ultimate cause of all other things.
>
> I don't think this agrees with trinitarian doctrine; all three Persons 
> are uncreated, but the Father is the maker of heaven and earth. The 
> Son and the Holy Spirit inform and influence but don't seem to 
> directly create.

No. I don't this is probably the case. John 1 says:
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word 
was God. The same was with God in the beginning. All things were made by 
him and without him nothing was made that was made."

Jehovah Witnesses read this as "All things were made by God", but it 
appears that most scholars agree with Augustinian and  Arian theology 
and read it as "All things were made by Word".

u+16b9

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