Urth Net

← back to the conversation

Merger

Lee Berman · 04 Feb 2011, 13:20 · from 2011-February.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: severiansola at hotmail.com (Lee Berman)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:20:15 -0500
Subject: (urth) Merger
Message-ID: <SNT123-W3ED7E79DC6157339540D2CFE60 at phx.gbl>



>James Wynn: It is easy to think of "demiurge" as meaning "half-creator" because we 
>often use "demi" to mean "something less than" or as synonymous with 
>"semi" or "hemi". But actually it means only "skilled worker" or 
>"craftsman".
 
Yes, it was this definition, plus the Short Sun's explicit association of The Outsider 
with Dionysus (Pan) that steered me toward Father Inire as a focus for this entity in
BotNS.
 
 
>It comes from the Socratic Dialogues. Of course, with the 
>new understanding that Plato was a Pythagorean, perhaps its roots even 
>drawn from there. Anyway, the God of Genesis or the Logos of the Gospel 
>of John could be properly called a "demiurge".
 
>Among CERTAIN Christian Gnostics, the demiurge is something of a bad guy 
>and something separate from the Increate/Pancreator. He is a created 
>being who made the world. Manicheanism is seen as the name brand of such 
>philosophies. However, in many (most?) Gnostic philosophies--even 
>Christian ones--this is not the case. In fact, in a lot them, the world 
>was made by multiple demiurges called archons.
 
Being from a Western culture, my limited knowledge of gnosticism was focused on Judeo-Christian 
Platonic versions before this Wolfe stuff started creeping into my consciousness. My current sense 
is that gnoticism was quite further reaching, roughly encompassing Alexander's empire from India to 
Europe and originating as an amalgam of the beliefs held among the divergent people in this area.
Thus the Greek/Judeo-Christian version might be considered a minority (though the spread of 
Christianity seems to have carried a version on its underbelly).
 
>So the question is, was Wolfe riffing off one of the particular 
>"anti-Semitic" Gnosticisms or another more generic brand?
 
I think we can get clues from the word choices of Wolfe. As previoiusly mentioned, the "manvantaras"
and their mini-creators might fit the picture. The Kabbalic terms Abaddon, Yesod and Briah and Tzadkiel
bring us back to the Judeo-Christian realm with heaven, hell, demons and angels. The Cumaean's reference 
to "The Abraxas" comes from Egyptian/Coptic traditions and may be the origin of the "Seventeen Stones" of 
Cadroe and Megatherians.
 
The idea of mini-demiurges or archons running around, getting things done seems to parallel Pan's ability 
to multiply himself into a horde of assistants. Could be the basis for Father Inire (and Abaia/The Mother/Scylla) 
able to do something similar. And why the Autarch attempts to copy this ability in inferior, human form, while
Tzadkiel seems to do so in superior (faster, more flexible) form.
 
 
Wikipedia has a pretty informative, organized article on gnosticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism 		 	   		  

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net