do the Hierogrammates care about the megatherians?

James Wynn · 23 May 2011, 02:54 · from 2011-May.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: crushtv at gmail.com (James Wynn)
Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 21:54:45 -0500
Subject: (urth) do the Hierogrammates *care* about the megatherians?
In-Reply-To: <299575.42228.qm at web114711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT123-W220B7E3214FF82B9BAC2DDCF710 at phx.gbl>	<AE83B76DDD3A4DCCB4C28DABF86BA1B5@jill>	<4DD6C327.5090406 at gmail.com>	<535089.18349.qm at web114704.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<4DD6EBE4.5000407 at gmail.com>	<630092.30979.qm at web114707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<4DD74F67.8000504 at gmail.com>
	<299575.42228.qm at web114711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4DD9CC75.1080209 at gmail.com>

> Jerry Friedman:
> Okay, is there an objection to the idea that the "megatherian" human rulers were
> early rulers of Ascia? We don't know why 17, but if there are 17 sea creatures, we don't know why that
> number either.  (Other than the reference to the Politburo in either case, or
> the speculations in my previous post.)
>
> It's true that the relation of the present "Group of 17" to these hypothetical
> 17 founders is vague, but so is the relation of the present "Group of 17" to the
> hypothetical 17 sea creatures.

Well, my objection is this.

It seems to me we agree that the term "megatherian" is *related* to the 
giant alien powers--because Abaia is called a "Great Beast". The only 
doubt is whether the term refers _directly_ to the alien powers.

The "17 stones" and "the Group of 17" are enumerated by human choice. 
Someone decided they should be that number. That leaves only the "17 
megatherians" _possibly_ NOT being humanly enumerated. So unless the 
number 17 is derived from some source unnamed in the book, it seems most 
likely that the 17 Megatherians is the source of the other two.

True, it could be that 17 Megatherians and the Group of 17 are somehow 
equivalent (getting their name from an association with the alien 
powers). But that just adds a level of complication. You have to suppose 
why the group of 17 got that name, how the government of the Ascians led 
to a tradition in the Commonwealth, and any additional issues of 
speculation.

On the other hand, if one accepts that alien powers number 17 and are 
called Megatherians because they are "like great beasts", then the 
selection of the number 17 elsewhere is self-explanatory.

It is marginally easier (given the reference to Abaia as a Great Beast) 
to decide the alien powers are the Megatherians.

>>> Part of Urth?  And what makes you say they're  ruling?
>> Their various territories. They rule as the Storm King rules in  'An Evil
>> Guest'. And Abaia has an army.
> Okay, that's one.

Also, Erebus rules pirates (or they are devoted to his memory). 
Additionally, Cilinia was (presumably) executed for seeking to betray 
Typhon for Scylla. One presumes she did more that put posters up in her 
room. Scylla would have had to be a credible threat.

j

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net