Frog and Fish

James Wynn · 23 May 2011, 19:56 · from 2011-May.txt.gz

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From: crushtv at gmail.com (James Wynn)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:56:48 -0500
Subject: (urth) Frog and Fish
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W47F4B5F191BC0ACA2D0980CF720 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W47F4B5F191BC0ACA2D0980CF720 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4DDABC00.2080906 at gmail.com>

>> James Wynn: I think it is an easy call that Ymar is Frog (ymir=king=rana=frog).
> Lee Berman:
> Is there more to the conenction
> that I've missed? You mention being raised by wolves/torturers...also, we can assume
> that Ymar is an orphan. For a more tenuous link, I note that the similar circumstance child,
> Moses, has a connection to frogs (plague). What relationship does this imply between
> Spring Wind/Typhon and Ymar?

Well, it means that Ymar is of some sort of royal stock. That like 
Severian, he has a twin (probably fraternal). Since he is being raised 
by the Torturers it is clear that he has been "orphaned" which does not 
necessarily mean his parents are dead. But there is nothing I've 
detected in his conversation with Severian or in the story of Frog to 
say how he got there. If you're looking for the true identity of Frog, 
Ymar is an obvious choice. I'm open to others, but you HAVE to like the 
way Ymar means "king" and so does the genus for frogs.

>> I suspect that Fish will be found on Tzadkiel (the shepherds). Possibly he
>> will have a name that means "sword".
>
> I'm quite lost on this one. Tzadkiel (the shepherds)? I'm hoping it might be of some
> help to note that Master Xiphias in Long Sun has an occupation and name which invokes both
> "sword" and "swordfish".

Don't think that connection has evaded my notice. And the constellation 
Dorado (swordfish) is nearby the star Rana (frog) in the Eridanus 
(stream) constellation. Since Wolfe reuses ideas, a swordfish strikes me 
as a useful place to start. There are of course other possibilities. But 
this is the way profiling works. Gerry thinks I just make stuff up on 
the fly. I wish it were that easy. In order to solve a puzzle, you must 
first allow that there *is* a puzzle.

Tzakiel as the shepherds? Isn't that exactly their role regarding 
humanity? (for whatever purpose)

> Also, I'm still hoping for some explication of your suggestion of Erebus being long dead..
> (is it only the Student and his Son story? Or more?) 		 	   		

There's his name for starters, which means the Darkness of the 
Underworld, that's awfully chthonic.
Then there's the story of the Student and His Son. Wolfe has said in The 
Castle of the Otter that Nix is the consort of Erebus "which makes him 
the step-father of Princess Noctua" [from memory]. Well, the consort of 
Nix in the story is the Ogre, and (using the commutative property) 
Erebus is the Ogre. Of course the Ogre dies in that story.
Finally, there's the fact the Ascians are called "slaves of Erebus", but 
his base is supposedly in the South. It seems to me that he is a bit 
inactive. There's no assault on the Commonwealth from Antarctica.

The pirates of the south still honor Erebus. Still, when someone speaks 
of pirate "ship of Erebus", they might only be talking about the region 
where he once ruled.

One thing that speaks against this view is Master Ash who says "If 
Erebus and Abaia and the rest
enter the field themselves, it will be a new struggle. If and when." I 
would guess they would "enter the field" in the same way the Storm King 
entered the field against the US Navy. But just because Erebus has died, 
does not mean he cannot be a power anymore. The great powers in Wolfe's 
novel are not debilitated by death. Severian, Mr Million, Weer, Silk, 
Typhon. So, Erebus' current state is ambiguous but, yeah, I think he's dead.

J.

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