Ymar

Sergei SOLOVIEV · 25 May 2011, 21:16 · from 2011-May.txt.gz

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From: soloviev at irit.fr (Sergei SOLOVIEV)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 23:16:53 +0200
Subject: (urth) Ymar
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik+mU7OOwr4yf+Tn=9DEs=4bY5PJw at mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik+mU7OOwr4yf+Tn=9DEs=4bY5PJw at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DDD71C5.2010608 at irit.fr>

Chronology of Urth seems to me extremely interesting. To add to our 
discussion some
more elements/questions:

Silk/Horn "spirits" travel to Urth when Severian is an apprentice. 
Apparently the interval
between their visits on Urth is the same as on Blue, so they came the same
year.  First time, when they are with
Rigoglio, they discuss how much time passed between the departure of 
Whorl and
their visit. Rigoglio was put on the Whorl by Typhon, and the date may 
be very precise -
it is the last year of Typhon rule. There is a traveler who says how 
much dead part
of the city moves during one generation (about one block US sense). 
There is several
leagues between the street where the house of Rigoglio stood and the 
fringe of Nessus.
For the Whorl only 300 years passed, but we understand that it was 
relativistic
"shrinking of time". So it is maybe several hundreds of generations, but 
not much more
if the speed of the city fringe remained constant.

Best

Sergei


Andrew Mason wrote:
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
>   In BotNS, (unless you include Frog!) there is no
>   
>> indication that Ymar was the first Autarch, or was contemporaneous with
>> Typhon.  Nor does his contemporeity with Typhon seem to inform us of
>> anything; indeed I personally think it hurts the story in some ways.
>>     
>
> More than that:it seems actually inconsistent with some things in the
> text. In connection with the antechamber, we are told that _before
> Ymar_ the autarch himself used to judge crimes committed in the
> grounds of the House Absolute. Malrubius says that Ymar was the _last_
> Autarch, before Severian's predecessor, to take the test. (Technically
> 'last' can include 'only', but it would be very deceptive. Possibly
> Malrubius is deceptive, but I see no reason for him to deceive about
> that.)
>
> Also, Typhon seems to be dated several  chiliads earlier, by
> Severian's remark about the Conciliator, that he disappeared several
> chiliads ago, and by Cyriaca's story - I think she says that the book,
> which mentions Typhon, is itself several chiliads old. Also by the
> time it would take to shape all the mountains into figures of
> Autarchs. Ymar, I think, isn't dated in the text,but in an interview
> given at the time Wolfe put him just a chiliad before Severian - where
> in the now canonical dating Typhon seems to be as well, causing much
> confusion.
>
> Besides that, there's the fact that Ymar is a known historical figure,
> whereas Typhon is forgotten.
>
>  I
>   
>> suspect that Wolfe, after he had started on UotNS, decided it would be
>> 'lame' for Severian not to meet Ymar, and wrote it in then.
>>     
>
> I think it may be a bit more than that. Very likely, Wolfe already
> knew that Ymar had been a torturer, which is why he reformed the guild
> - thus prefiguring Severian's own life. Palaemon says two torturers
> had previously left the guild to take up appointments elsewhere; he
> himself turns out to be one; who is the other? Very possibly Ymar. But
> this is one of the things that is not made clear enough in BOTNS, and
> therefore Wolfe brings Ymar into _Urth_ to clarify the matter.
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