Seventeen

Nathan C. Tresch · 26 May 2011, 23:51 · from 2011-May.txt.gz

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From: nathanctresch at gmail.com (Nathan C. Tresch)
Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:51:52 -0700
Subject: (urth) Seventeen
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W525CBADA16EFA3DDC033BACF720 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W525CBADA16EFA3DDC033BACF720 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinLnAtHXjdcm2oZFYV4yREWv2KF5A at mail.gmail.com>

Can someone explain to me why the idea that the Ascians have anything to do
with communism is so popular?  He attributed his inspiration for the Ascians
to the Turks of the Byzantine period of history, and points out that they
are north american in origin in this interview:

http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/wolfe46interview.htm

<http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/wolfe46interview.htm>Further, the idea
that it takes a totalitarian society to produce a culture where only certain
slogans can be used to communicate seems specious. I think it's just as
likely that formalism and political correctness taken to an extreme could
produce such a culture, or that some kind of mass media which spread
slogans, (like the internet spreading memes), could also be the impetus.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 6:25 AM, Lee Berman <severfiansola at hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> I like David's theory about 17 being a nice counterpart to 12 in a gnostic
> parody of
> Earth (which I roundly think Urth is meant to be).
>
> Still, I don't feel the need to leave it at that. For me the the Group of
> 17 might also refer to the
> communist nations at the time of BotNS writing: USSR, China, Cuba, N.
> Korea, N. Vietnam, Mongolia,
> Cambodia, Laos, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland,
> Hungary, E. Germany,Albania
> and Yemen. (the # gets bigger if you want to add some short-lived African
> communist states)
>
> With regard to the origin of megatherians, I'm coming around to the notion
> that they are all human in
> origin. Jibes with the "Man is created in God's image" religious idea.
> Aliens are always some form
> of mutated human, be they Abaia or Famulimus.
>
> I think Wolfe tries to show us the progression. It always starts with a bid
> for immortality. Typhon
> with his body grafts.  Baldanders with his eternal growth.  Even Tzadkiel
> with his escape to the next
> universe.
>
> But by definition, becoming immortal means losing one's humanity. Thus
> Baldanders' and Typhon's cruelty.
> Even Tzadkiel must resort to genocide.  Baldanders is losing his hearing.
> Typhon loses his whole body.
> Pig is blind and the Godling has eyes so small we must guess he will lose
> his sight with further growth.
>
> We aren't given a lot of face time with the final products, but I think we
> get enough with Tzadkiel,
> The Mother and Great Scylla to conclude that when these former human-types
> get big enough they can pinch
> off human-sized agents to accomplish what they, in their large bulk,
> cannot. We never see Abaia but it
> is implied he can do the same thing.  The cold pale warriors, the pandours,
> are a similar product of
> Erebus I think.
>
> (James, you implied that there is evidence in BotNS for Erebus being long
> dead. Could you outline this?)
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-- 
Per Aspera, Ad Astra
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