Typhon's nature

David Stockhoff · 12 Oct 2011, 02:50 · from 2011-October.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 22:50:07 -0400
Subject: (urth) Typhon's nature
In-Reply-To: <4E94F7CA.8040906 at clueland.com>
References: <CAM3O41JN3D5Fv4JaHHq1Ewg6VvHYY8NzVBF2VqL9OCHhBzU=eQ at mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMBsQ=J+K_YSPe0hPne5-VZoUeYOZbTS9xhVFh8BS3WDgK1C3Q at mail.gmail.com>
	<4E923EA3.1080003 at verizon.net>
	<CAFjGSadywASrXg3zGQKQBZYKFjUQVg6vy92vPLpjm5VQrF--Kw at mail.gmail.com>
	<4E92407C.1070308 at verizon.net>
	<CAMBsQ=JEkBUmhgeW=Lidx+uV00=+EQNFW+Ms4zw5pDGvRme=sA at mail.gmail.com>
	<4E929F13.8060704 at clueland.com> <4E92E879.1040103 at verizon.net>
	<4E932B84.8000201 at clueland.com> <4E933279.4000305 at verizon.net>
	<4E93B430.7080505 at clueland.com> <4E942DA7.9030004 at verizon.net>
	<4E943442.4090107 at clueland.com> <4E945AE0.1010006 at verizon.net>
	<78fd2f4a345468a9029e74b0a2a747e4.squirrel at webmail.prismnet.com>
	<4E949778.4080409 at verizon.net>
	<8b8eb2992ceb3929cc73f0811a11ec2b.squirrel at webmail.prismnet.com>
	<4E94BA5A.1010607 at verizon.net>
	<8eb575c5369b94e1d0eb11b0c97c7854.squirrel at webmail.prismnet.com>
	<4E94C96D.4050102 at verizon.net> <4E94F7CA.8040906 at clueland.com>
Message-ID: <4E95005F.8070504 at verizon.net>

On 10/11/2011 10:13 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
> On 10/11/2011 5:55 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:
>> On 10/11/2011 6:41 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>>> On Tue, October 11, 2011 16:51, David Stockhoff wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2011 5:21 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, October 11, 2011 14:22, David Stockhoff wrote:
>>>>>> Larry was right to point out that Typhon probably senses the 
>>>>>> "powers"
>>>>>> more than he "speaks" with them. But they are plainly Erebus and
>>>>>> Abaia, or I have never read a word by Wolfe and live under the 
>>>>>> South Pole
>>>>>> in a rusty tin can.
>>>>> Typhon's ship commanders slipping away before he knows it argues
>>>>> against his long-range ESP.
>>>> Of course, it argues against good signal intelligence as well.
>>> Skill at subterfuge and confounding men and machines is fairly 
>>> common in
>>> the books but there's no hint of a cloak against mind powers.
>> Typhon is not a mind reader. No one suggested that he was.
This is hardly quibbling. Typhon is explicitly not a mind reader in the 
classic pulp sense. So those comments don't argue much.
>
>>>>> Typhon's sending of his thoughts into distant places remains a 
>>>>> somewhat
>>>>> curious idiom if it is not literal, but it is not entirely without
>>>>> precedent in literature and bombast and other figurative expression.
>>>> Its ambiguity-while-seeming-perfectly-clear would not be without
>>>> precedent in Wolfe either.
>>> "I've sent my Athenians into distant places."
>> Meaning? BTW, he sent his thought into distant places. Not his thoughts.
>
> I don't want to hog the whole gauntlet of quibbling challenges, I'll 
> give the rest of the class a chance to answer some.
No, please just explain your remark. If you've sent your Athenians, 
presumably they went. What has this to do with "sending thought"? It is 
indeed a "somewhat curious idiom if it is not literal, but it is not 
entirely without precedent," as I agreed above.

I pointed out the use of the singular because to some, "thought" might 
imply more of a focused and intimate connection, while "thoughts" might 
be interpreted more easily as thought commands to mindreading machines. 
It may or may not bear directly on the discussion. See below.
>
>
> >>>> He mentions the Asciians in the same breath as the
> >>>> beasts and knows they are beholden to them as the old autarch and
> >>>> Vodalus
> >>>> later confirm. This is entirely consistent with him retrieving 
> Asciian
> >>>> signal intelligence from automated listening posts; Vodalus confirms
> >>>> they
> >>>> use long-distance comms.
> >>> This seems to assume Erebus and Abaia use ordinary radio. Right?
> >> I don't know how ordinary it might be, but yes, it assumes that the
> >> Ascians use radio along with robots and electric lights.
> > So you mean that the Ascians have revealed their fealty to Abaia in
> > their radio communications. That makes sense.
>
> Thank you.
Although difficult to imagine, especially given what we know of Ascian. 
I mean, "Abaia says this" and "Erebus directs that" don't reveal much.

Why is Typhon not surprised that there are powers in the sea, of all 
places? If he is purely an Alexander-style military conqueror, should he 
not consider fighting and defeating seamonsters a tactical and strategic 
challenge? Yet his arrogance dismisses them. Do his cataphracts function 
under water?

If Typhon can send his thought into the sea and sense other great minds 
there, he would confirm their presence and objectives and weaknesses 
himself.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 111011-2, 10/11/2011
Tested on: 10/11/2011 10:50:08 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2011 AVAST Software.
http://www.avast.com

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net