Silk's origin

David Stockhoff · 13 Oct 2011, 18:39 · from 2011-October.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:39:48 -0400
Subject: (urth) Silk's origin
In-Reply-To: <4E971B6B.8060307 at gmail.com>
References: <1318478550.21622.YahooMailClassic at web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<4E971B6B.8060307 at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E973074.7090303 at verizon.net>

On 10/13/2011 1:10 PM, James Wynn wrote:
> On 10/12/2011 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:
>> I'll respond to the rest later this week, I just wanted to say, 
>> baldness/hair pattern is one of those great genetic markers that 
>> cloning would, you know, match up if Silk/Tussah were genetically 
>> identical.
>
> But this is not a problem if is Silk is a clone of the SON of Typhon. 
> Even if Silk and Tussah were genetically identical--a possibility I 
> leave open but unexplained--there are a lot of ways one can go bald 
> beyond genetics.
> But then I consider Horn height and ability to mimic Silk to be a hint 
> either, although THEY don't look alike either. And Horn goes bald. So, 
> I'm stuck at this point.
>
>> Primarily, I see "the son not of my body" as straight up adoption: 
>> the heir he grows but has NO GENETIC connection to his body.  I think 
>> your reading of it entails the opposite of the words.  If I wanted a 
>> child, adopted him,, and had plans for him, but he wasn't related to 
>> me, I'd call him the son not of my body.
>
> Absolutely it is not opposite.
> Let me remind you of what Tussah said:
> "ALTHOUGH he is not the son of my BODY, my SON shall be Calde after me."
>
> Not of his body, but affirmatively his son. It's a mystery. It's not 
> based on confusion on Tussah's part but full self-awareness. This 
> would assume that Tussah is well-aware that Silk's and his own genetic 
> ancestry which is entirely likely considering Lemur's knowledge of the 
> Typhon family. And, as I said, Wolfe already dropped the dime on 
> clones with the Pike/Rajan mix-up.
>
> I think the adoption interpretation is remarkably non-Wolfean and if 
> any other writer had a character make a prophesy like Tussah's and 
> intended adoption, he would have felt the need to explain it--because 
> it would need justification.
>
> There's no evidence that Silk was adopted. It's possible they never 
> met after his birth. And he didn't need an adopted heir. I assert 
> Wolfe dodged when asked about Silk's ancestry. It's simply the only 
> believable explanation I can think of.
As far as cloning, recall that your son gets only half your DNA. Cloning 
(100%) is not needed. I've argued this for three days, of course. To me, 
"cloning" need not be taken too literally, as there is a wide range of 
genetic manipulation. Any genetic contribution that is meaningful would 
count.

As an example of meaningful genetic contribution: if I went to my 
clonebank and ordered one copy, then found that the bank had made 20 
copies (because my superior genes and oh, say, rulership of Earth made 
my DNA a hot property), then I could sue and claim those 20 embryos as 
my property/offspring. Even if they took only half of my DNA, I could at 
least claim paternity. (Look at what Monsanto does to farmers whose 
crops have been contaminated by their GM corn.) I could then call them 
all my sons and predict that one would be a future ruler of Earth. The 
bigger mystery is how I knew that would happen!

Three thoughts:

(1) It's almost as though Silk received a genetic contribution from a 
source that is not Tussah but identical to Tussah. That is, from a 
source for both Tussah and Silk, e.g., if Silk is clone #2 to Tussah's 
clone #1 off some original. If Silk's embryo preceded Tussah himself by 
200 years, that's the only way he could be Tussah's genetic son anyway.

(2) Might Tussah have contributed something of himself to Silk that was 
not from his body, but from his mind? I have no idea how that might work.

(3) What if Typhon's sperm were kept for insemination rather than having 
his DNA cloned? You'd have any number of variations on Typhon as a 
result, some looking like him, some not, because Typhon would contribute 
half the genes (and any male result would be his son). Is there a 
solution for the other half that would result in Silk and also make him 
son of Tussah?

I see no particular reason why Typhon's and Tussah's genes couldn't be 
combined without any female contribution whatsoever. Whatever 
technological hurdles could be overcome or ignored; the bigger problems 
would be the narrative ones.

---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 111013-1, 10/13/2011
Tested on: 10/13/2011 2:39:49 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2011 AVAST Software.
http://www.avast.com

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net