Urth Net
Faterh Inire
David Stockhoff · 14 Oct 2011, 01:16
· from 2011-October.txt.gz
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything
here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer
encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the
archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those
repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is
for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site,
so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 21:16:28 -0400 Subject: (urth) Faterh Inire In-Reply-To: <CAMBsQ=+oA_gXAmdojyfRka7JfsfJFA0Oj3Yn40-z3_Fy46QoLA at mail.gmail.com> References: <SNT123-W29BE5013DEFCD192F4CD8ACFE00 at phx.gbl> <CAMBsQ=+oA_gXAmdojyfRka7JfsfJFA0Oj3Yn40-z3_Fy46QoLA at mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E978D6C.4050402 at verizon.net> For one thing, it has been noted that the Moffats lived before air travel, yet there is a plane. This and other twists (more than I can now recall) make the scene more and less than it appears. Is the scene from Urth's past? Our "present"? Or another "iteration" of Earth/Urth? Or is it a scene of spirits called up by Inire, who built the Gardens and therefore has at least some control over time? On 10/13/2011 8:21 PM, larry miller wrote: > Dont worry about sounding argumentative, this is a discussion group > after all. Robert and Marie are most likely the real missionaries > Robert and Marie Moffat who went to Africa. As you noted Isangoma is > an african name (zulu for sorcerer), therefore Isangoma is probably > one of thier students. These people existed during our time so how > could this be Inire? And if it is him what would he be doing in Africa > learning the bible? Again if you or anyone else can answer these > questions or have any evidence to back up your theories post them. I > am very interested in anyones take on the book and would love nothing > more than to examine and pursue other lines of thinking. > > On 10/13/11, Lee Berman<severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> larry miller: The jungle guide is definetly Inire. Dorcas husband >>> and Isangoma on the other hand Id have to disagree with you. Isangoma >>> along with Robert and Marie are just people from our time being observed >>> by Severian and Agia. Inire being Dorcas husband makes no sense to me >>> but Id love to hear any thoughts you have on why you think so. >> >> >> Well, I think I am willing to pursue Father Inire further than anyone else >> >> in the world (except, perhaps, Gene Wolfe and he ain't talkin'). >> >> >> >> At the risk of sounding argumentative, which I don't want to be, I'm curious >> >> about your skepticism regarding Isangoma. Sure that trio is put there for >> >> to be observed by Severian (not Agia, I think she is a pawn with different >> >> purposes). But why? And what serves to link Urth and Earth if not Father >> Inire? >> >> Plus we have a jungle shaman who is Inire and an "Isangoma", which means >> shaman, >> >> in a Jungle Hut, both with dark, metallic skin. The connection is pretty >> strong >> >> for me. >> >> >> >> Dorcas' husband being Father Inire is surely a difficult leap of faith few >> are >> >> willing to make. I was willing because I was looking. None of the bits of >> >> evidence are compelling by themselves. It only makes sense, like a jigsaw >> puzzle, >> >> if you identify each piece with other pieces around it. >> >> >> >> So, to start, when an small, old, bent man with a wry neck says Father Inire >> is a >> >> small, old bent man with a wry neck I have to start wondering about his >> identity. >> >> When Dorcas' husband says he was there when Father Inire planted the averns, >> >> perhaps he doesn't mean he was simply watching. >> >> >> >> Just before the Jungle Hut, Severian tells Agia a Father Inire story which >> seems >> >> to suggest he has a somewhat creepy fascination with young girls (surely a >> Lewis >> >> Carroll reference, especially when paired with mirrors). I think the >> consensus for >> >> Dorcas'age when she first gave birth was about 15, so that might qualify >> Dorcas' >> >> husband as being similar in that regard. >> >> >> >> Some other non-human literary characters who had a fascination with young >> human >> >> women were the ancient Greek and Roman gods. They were always falling in >> love or >> >> lust and changing their form so they could mate with some young ingenue. The >> >> offspring of such mixed-race matings were usually demi-gods or heroes. I >> think >> >> this analogy helps us to understand why Severian is inexplicably special in >> this >> >> story. Like a Greek hero he falls into fantastic adventure after adventure. >> He >> >> doesn't always win but nothing seems to be able to kill him and he has >> special >> >> powers which we eventually find out originate in him, not a blue jewel. >> >> >> >> Anyway, similar collections of evidence can be used to identify other >> possible Inire >> >> iterations. I mentioned Hethor in a recent post. Fechin and Ceryx are two >> other >> >> oft-discussed possibilities. >> _______________________________________________ >> Urth Mailing List >> To post, write urth at urth.net >> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net >> > _______________________________________________ > Urth Mailing List > To post, write urth at urth.net > Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 111013-2, 10/13/2011 > Tested on: 10/13/2011 8:22:23 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2011 AVAST Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 111013-2, 10/13/2011 Tested on: 10/13/2011 9:16:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2011 AVAST Software. http://www.avast.com
An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net