Urth-Earth links

Lee Berman · 14 Oct 2011, 20:34 · from 2011-October.txt.gz

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From: severiansola at hotmail.com (Lee Berman)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 16:34:17 -0400
Subject: (urth) Urth-Earth links
Message-ID: <SNT123-W3688E478E2859D871C867ECFE10 at phx.gbl>

 On 10/14/2011 3:54 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:
>> When does Silk see Jesus?  I vaguely remember something like that; perhaps
>> in his meditations on the Outsider he comes to such a conclusion?
> The clearest evidence is the statement that in one of his
> enlightenments he saw a man riding through a city where people were
> waving fronds. The man on the scaffold, and the child lying in straw,
> which he sees may well be Jesus as well, but that's less certain.
>
>David Stockhoff: To me, that is all one thing, in three parts.

I guess we can all present our own ideas but I think the gulf is too great between 
those who think Jesus Christ The Saviour existed on Urth and those who don't to
allow any convincing or changing of minds. I think it may be a very personal
thing for a lot of Wolfe readers.

Here is the quote from the Lawrence Person interview that Gerry mentions:

>LP: Critics have made much of Severian as a Christ figure. Do you think that this 
>interpretation is valid in view of the first four books?

>GW: No. He is a Christian figure, which is different. He is trying to become Christ-like. 
>He is basically what practically all of us who are men are, he is a bad man trying to be 
>good. He makes progress as the books progress. He becomes a better person, and a larger 
>person in a spiritual sense. But no, he is not a Christ figure. At least he never was to me.

My view is probably most closely in line with David Stockhoff's. I think of Urth and Briah as
elder but less spiritually advanced than our Earth and universe. They have galactic empires
and time travel and advanced biology but they haven't even had their flood yet, which we had
5000 years ago.

Thus, as David says, Severian is the only kind of savior a place like Urth could get. Believing 
in the Conciliator and/or New Sun wasn't going to save your soul. The best you could hope for
would be for everyone around you to get drowned in a flood which would clean up the place
and make room for a better class of people who eventually could be saved. Which, in Judeo-
Christian lore, is what happened on earth 5000 years ago. I'd say Wolfe is rare but not 
alone in considering Noah's Flood as helping to prepare earth for the coming of Jesus Christ.

That seems to be what happened on Blue and what is going to happen on Green (if we can consider 
the sewer scene as a portent of the future).

Gerry, I think you were implying that Jesus Christ did not save humanity because we still have
pagan gods and monsters and demonic possession and evil on earth. I am not religious but if I 
understand correctly, what Jesus Christ brought to our table and which provides for our salvation 
is choice. If we choose to believe in Jesus and accept him as our saviour, none of those evil
things can harm our soul.

As stated earlier, my impression is that the people on Urth (and the Whorl) were not provided this
choice (yet). They could believe in whatever they wanted but it wasn't going to help them or Urth.
Urth (at least the Commonwealth) is in a holding pattern, waiting for...something.  We discover that 
something is a destructive genocidal flood is what they were waiting for. Woo hoo. But I think 
Gene Wolfe finds that Flood a necessary part of the path a planet must undergo before it is ready for 
a true savior like Jesus Christ.

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