Urth-Earth links

David Stockhoff · 19 Oct 2011, 13:25 · from 2011-October.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:25:31 -0400
Subject: (urth) Urth-Earth links
In-Reply-To: <05F0991430804647836DEFA925B6E960@Rover>
References: <SNT123-W63BBAF65823E02E1B06ECDCFE50 at phx.gbl>
	<05F0991430804647836DEFA925B6E960@Rover>
Message-ID: <4E9ECFCB.7060406 at verizon.net>

On 10/19/2011 7:54 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
> *From:* Lee Berman <mailto:severiansola at hotmail.com>
>
> >Gerry Quinn:
> > > Both sides use the alzabo glands, for example.
> > >Typhon uses high technology
>
> > I do not agree. Are you refering to the alzabo-like substance
> > which transfers memories from the old Autarch to Severian? My
> > interpretation of the story does not allow for this sort of thing
> > to come from angelic B, F and O.
> They aren?t angels. For example, they engage in technology transfer 
> with Baldanders, who vivisects women. The alzabo essence as used by 
> the Autarchs is apparently benign [and the alzabo itself is described 
> as having been brought from a distant planet for the use and benefit 
> of mankind, although perhaps whoever said that was allowing him or 
> herself a touch of irony ? I don?t remember. It may well be that they 
> were initially confined to zoos or farms. Like the inhumi, the alzabo 
> would be simple animals if they did not feed on people.]

Is the term "angels" used here in its sense of "agents of good"? I'm not 
sure I see the slightest hint of morality or ethics anywhere in Briah, 
on any "side."

Then again, I don't see angels themselves as particularly "good."

>
>
> > Wolfe, in an interview, refers to the alzabo ceremony as a
> > "diabolic eucharist" iirc. It seems clear that the memory transfer
> > from autarch to autarch is the same sort of process and thus is
> > equally diabolic and not the sort of thing which would come from
> > angel analogs. Fallen angels on the other hand...yes that is a likely
> > source.
> The Eucharist is also the same sort of process as a diabolical 
> Eucharist. Might not this be the appropriate analogy? There is 
> certainly one analogical element, as in the autarchial process, the 
> memory donor voluntarily offers himself as a sacrifice, which is not 
> the case in the ?diabolical Eucharist? of Vodalus and his followers.
Again, I don't see any worthwhile distinction between fallen and 
unfallen technology. Both processes are unspeakable perversions but it 
is their users (and uses) that distinguish them.
>
> > p.s. Yes Typhon uses high technology but they are ancient machines 
> dating
> > back to a time before Urth became technologically backward and had 
> to rely
> > on the dribs and drabs provided by limited cacogen contact. So his 
> machines
> > are not a part of this discussion.
> That seems arbitrary. Both sides use whatever physical technology, 
> biological technology or other magic is to hand, in my opinion. That 
> also seems in accord with the other works of Wolfe, who does not, I 
> think, consider any form of technology intrinsically evil, but only 
> the uses of it.
I agree with this, but I also see First Empire technology as of native 
derivation.

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