theories

Sergei SOLOVIEV · 23 Oct 2011, 17:21 · from 2011-October.txt.gz

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From: soloviev at irit.fr (Sergei SOLOVIEV)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:21:34 +0200
Subject: (urth) theories
In-Reply-To: <A730DD87-F844-4E8B-9BD3-EDBC09224901 at liftingfaces.com>
References: <4EA432EE.9060907 at irit.fr>	<DE2C24CA-46ED-4FBE-B42D-E954D86F0BBB at liftingfaces.com>	<4EA44518.5020506 at irit.fr>
	<A730DD87-F844-4E8B-9BD3-EDBC09224901 at liftingfaces.com>
Message-ID: <4EA44D1E.8000703 at irit.fr>

I am not against theories as such - I posted this because a) I had a 
feeling that much more
people are attacking Gerry than agree with him (and I rather agree - I 
do not
speak about "elitistic" or "not elitistic" thinking but about concrete 
arguments),
b) a bit earlier, somebody told that it is is "not honest to dismiss 
evidence" addressing
it to Gerry -  I felt that it is rather strong wording - while quite 
often the authors
of theories dismiss evidence that is against their theories - I see it 
every day on the list;
by the way Gerry answered in very detailed way - producing evidence, c) 
I do like Wolfe
very much and read and re-read his books often - and I think that he 
uses puzzles
only when he has a message to pass (and it is helped by this puzzle),
not just for the sake of that puzzle,
and d) as to the the theories that I don't like - usually I don't like 
them because they destroy
or obscure the "wolfean" message - for example, if you first say that 
Inire is sort of diabolic
personage, and then start to identify him with the poor guy who looked 
for Dorcas
in the lake of birds (grandfather of Severian) - it sounds to me like 
Polyanski in
"Rosemary's baby" (and his followers), not like Wolfe.

Sergei

Ryan Dunn wrote:
> I just mean that a half baked theory or a start of a theory is just as valid to posit on this list than a fully thought through fact checked cross referenced five year theory is.
>
> I notice a lot of naysaying rather than encouragement or informed disagreement lately, that's all.
>
> I could be misinterpreting though.
>
> And it appeared you were agreeing with Gerrys note which, in short, took a certain view of people who apparently were reading Wolfe the wrong way. That seems kind of close minded and elitist to the untrained eye.
>
> ...ryan
>
> On Oct 23, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Sergei SOLOVIEV <soloviev at irit.fr> wrote:
>
>   
>> Dear Ryan,
>>
>> I only told that I mostly agree with Gerry (and quoted him). I think that more balance between
>> generating theories and verifying them would be good. I don't think it is
>> offensive. Also, I don't think that to ask how our cultural background may
>> influence our ideas is offensive - and that it is bad to analyse ourselves a bit.
>> The lists needs theories - and critical attitude as well.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Sergei
>>
>> Ryan Dunn wrote:
>>     
>>> On Oct 23, 2011, at 11:29 AM, Sergei SOLOVIEV <soloviev at irit.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> There are especially many theories trying to declare that different personages are
>>>> identical.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Well if people weren't always appearing masked, in disguise, or spying on Severian, then I'd see where you are coming from.
>>>
>>> Wolfe's works most definitely ARE puzzles to be solved. He hides things in plain sight and assumes his readers will try to solve the mysteries he lays out. BotNS couldn't be a better example of this type of story.
>>>
>>> I'm more concerned by naysayers who dare to presume that either 1) they know the material so well that those who still theorize have nothing valuable to offer; or (worse) 2) they believe they have figured it all out and anyone who offers a new line of thought is somehow beneath their literary prowess.
>>>
>>> Inire is the most talked about, least seen character in the series. He is elusive yet somehow omnipresent. He is also (for no apparent reason) called Father. Do you really believe if is our of line to explore his character at length?
>>>
>>> Tsk tsk.
>>>
>>> And finally, there is nothing more disrespectful in literature discussion than to tell someone how they should or should not read a book, ESPECIALLY a Wolfe book. Give me a break. None of us are so all-knowing as to pass that kind of judgment. If you don't like people using an Urth discussion list to discuss theories related to Urth, maybe you're subscribed to the wrong list. I can think of no more appropriate place to have such spirited discussions. 
>>> ...ryan
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>>>       
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