Pike/Oreb

larry miller · 01 Nov 2011, 23:44 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

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From: biglar1984 at gmail.com (larry miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:44:44 -0400
Subject: (urth) Pike/Oreb
In-Reply-To: <1320187622.57654.YahooMailNeo at web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
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	<1320187622.57654.YahooMailNeo at web114715.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
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That was my first impression also that Pike was Silk from the future
in astral form.  Do you really think that Wolfe knew that far ahead
what would happen to Horn/Silk in Short Sun?


On 11/1/11, Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> wrote:
> In view of Antonio's post, maybe I should give this a SPOILER WARNING.
>
>>From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
>>On 11/1/2011 12:50 PM, Dave Tallman wrote:
>>larry miller wrote
>>>
>>>Started reading Lake of Long Sun last night and Im totally confused about
>>> the appearance of Patera Pike and Oreb in Silks room.??I know there was
>>> some mention of this last week in a few posts but I didnt want to chime
>>> in until I read it.??Thing is I still have no clue as to what to make of
>>> it.??Anyone out there have any idea what to make of that sequence?
>>>?My conclusion a while back is that it wasn't actually Patera Pike he saw,
>>> but his older self astral-traveling back in time, and bringing Oreb
>>> along. The BOTSS novels show Silk using this ability quite a bit.
>>>
>>>I have a short article discussing that and other theories about the
>>> apparition on the Wolfe Wiki:
>>>http://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=LakeOfTheLongSun.TheHolyGhost
>>>
>>>
>>My only discrepancy with the description of the "Silk astra-projecting
>> through time" theory is that it attempts to explain away Silk's
>> mis-identification of himself as Pike in that "he didn't get a clear look
>> at the face".
>>
>>I don't personally find that to be compelling. The text doesn't imply that
>> Silk *thinks* it looked like Pike.
>>If one asks, "Why did Silk mistake an older version of himself (although
>> probably slightly altered in astral-travel) for Patera Pike?" all kinds
>> additional plot elements suggest themselves.
>
> For instance, is it connected with Severian's mistaking the astral Silk for
> Master Malrubius?? We can take Severian to be a son or clone of Patera?P.,
> but such a relationship with Master M. is a bit much for me.? Pike and
> Malrubius were authority figures, now dead, in regard to Silk and Severian
> (as I remember).? Is the idea that many people will see astral Silk that
> way?
>
>>Also, I think the problematic time-line in tBotSS suggests that
>> astral-travel always has a potential for time-travel.
>
> It's certainly not the kind of thing you can rule out.? I haven't tried to
> look closely at the times of Silk's astral appearences as people have
> suggested.
>
> Jerry Friedman
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