Pike/Oreb

James Wynn · 05 Nov 2011, 16:01 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

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From: crushtv at gmail.com (James Wynn)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 11:01:08 -0500
Subject: (urth) Pike/Oreb
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> >Well, what of Malrubius? If we have a repeated pattern in which someone
> >meets a character for the first time and mistakes him for someone he knows
> >quite well....not everyone, mind you, only in two very specific
> >instances...well, why should we not conclude that he looked unncannily
> >like each of those persons. And if A = B = C then A = C. In other words,
> >why is not simplest explanation to conclude that if Severian had met
> >Patera Pike, that he might also have mistaken him for Malrubius as well.
> On 11/4/2011 6:29 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote: 
> Two reasons.  One is the lack of people saying the physical Silk resembled Pike.

No. They don't say it. I expected them to, or at least a proffered 
theory as to why Silk and Severian mistook the Rajan for someone else. I 
can't remember right now, does Severian or anyone else recognize 
Severian's face in Apu-Punchau in the first four volumes? I know 
Severian proferred an incorrect theory regarding his identity and gave 
us no more information about his identity.  (I could search the text for 
the answer but not finding anything would not be a confirmation and 
maybe someone knows.)

But Remora's conversation with Silk about the embryo that Tussah bought 
has always made me sense that he knew Silk was such an embryo and might 
be THE embryo. That might well be because he saw he similarity between 
Silk and Pike. But then Remora was an older man as well. I the reason 
Silk was assigned to the poorest quarter was to hide him from the 
attention of the city's elites. I suppose there are other ways the could 
have found out (Tussah told them for instance). But that he had a face 
they had seen before is another possible way.

As for others, well, it is not true that Silk and Pike were the split 
image of each other. Pike was a good deal older. Additionally, Wolfe 
seems to lean more to Nurture rather than Nature in the development of 
personalities. In "Home Fires" Chenille sees her mother in the body of a 
similar but by no means identical woman. She recognizes her immediately 
because she sees her mother's expressions and gestures in the body.

Pike has lived a different life. He grew up in a different world. He had 
different parents. I think Wolfe would find that significant in addition 
to the age difference between them.

> Rose knew Pike quite well in his younger days.

There is an interesting conversation (for me) that Rose-in-Marble has 
with Silk about why she hated him. She says it was because she could see 
in his face that he found her unattractive. Imagine how it would be to 
see such a thing in the face of the one you loved.

> Marble knew him, though the files might have gotten corrupted, and no doubt older people in the quarter knew his appearance. Yet unless I'm missing something again, we never hear of anyone saying that the new augur is the spit and image of the old one.  When we see Rose's point of view, she doesn't think it, though you'd expect it to be quite disturbing to her.  Likewise Mint knew Pike when he was old (she was at the manteion before Silk), and she sees Silk in RttW and discusses his appearance (which is like Silk, not Horn), but doesn't mention any resemblance to Pike.

Marble might have noticed that they were similar. But who cares? They 
weren't the same person.
On the other hand, Mint used to run from Silk's face.

> The other is that giving the Commonwealth the same practice of thawing embryos as the /Whorl/, without any mention, doesn't strike me as a simple addition to BotNS.

Well, the Commonwealth *does* commonly thaw embryos. Remora mentions all 
the animals. Blood thaws a human one one. Tussah too. It is common 
enough that the elite of Viron rightfully guess that Tussah procured one.

> So maybe the simplest explanation is that only the astral Silk resembles other people.

Wouldn't we expect Hoof and Hide to think the astral Rajan looks like 
their father then?

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