vanished people=Hieros

Nick Lee · 07 Nov 2011, 18:14 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: starwaterstrain at gmail.com (Nick Lee)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 12:14:44 -0600
Subject: (urth)  vanished people=Hieros
Message-ID: <CAMwAopQOGGFwbUzNi7Y8M4caQF7zWUMoA5oarEb3eKf=h8vL6g at mail.gmail.com>

Gerry Quinn:

That?s because you don?t pay attention to the text.  His mode of time
travel is to walk or run through the Corridors of Time.  The shackle
binds him in time no less than in space.  If you want an analogy,
consider a jet liner with a wall built around it at a distance of 50
yards or so.  It can fly, but nevertheless it is completely trapped by
a low wall.

The text has no a priori meaning, Gerry. It only means what we think
it means. In any case, you've already been given an example of a
character who can remove his shackles whenever he wishes. Or do you
think those scenes are to be taken at face value, literally, but by
your own definition of what is literal?

And how do you know what the green man's mode of transportation is?
Can you explain it scientifically? Is he capable of running faster
than the speed of light? That would make him go backwards in time.
What is his true mechanism of travel? If you can't explain that, then
I don't think your position is tenable.

As it stands, we are not privy to the scene of his "capture." Your
notion that the green man is honest is as much conjecture as anyone
else's version of events.

What do the hierodules have to say about the green man and his ability
to travel through time?

Urth, p.361:

"But as for returning you to your own time, we cannot help you. Your
green man knew more than we, perhaps; or at least he had more energy
at his disposal."

And on that same page:

"You're a materialist, like all ignorant people, but your materialism
doesn't make materialism true."

 Right. He must be a shapechanger because... well, because you want him to
> be, so everything we are told about him must be just a joke on the reader.

Who *wants* him to be a shapechanger? I'm just exploring the notion
and seeing where it leads me.

Remember the myth of Proteus? He could change shape and *foretell the
future*. He was of the sea, as algae is, and so would, like the
undines, be sea-green in appearance. According to Virgil, he is
"sea-green" (Geogrics 4.388).

Urth, p.56:

"The undine's hair had been green, not white; perhaps that had done
most of all. I should have realized that such a true and vivid green
is not found in men or beasts with hair or fur, and when ti seems to
occur is the effect of algae, like that in the blood of the green man
at Saltus. A rope left hanging in a pond will soon enough be green;
what a fool I had been."

That monologue is also about a case where Severian was deceived.

Proteus's name means "first" likes Protogonos, "first-born," another
name for Phanes/Dionysus. "Saltus" begins with "salt" which conjures
the sea. In latin it means "jump, flow, copulate, spring." This has
connotations of both water and the White Fountain, as well as sex,
which is connected to Phanes/Eros.

Perhaps we should also look at *The Wizard Knight*, at Garsecg and Setr.

At the very least, you must admit the connections are interesting.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20111107/fc30960c/attachment-0001.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net