This week in Google alerts

Andrew Mason · 07 Nov 2011, 21:53 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com (Andrew Mason)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:53:28 +0000
Subject: (urth) This week in Google alerts
Message-ID: <CAM3O41KDRcFNgYTF-TYANHQoDQC_gnaTwENxzwa181z_R745Pg at mail.gmail.com>

Marc Aramini wrote:

>So Dionysius of the vine becomes another aspect of the Outsider in man's future fate.

Yes, I agree (not with all the details, perhaps, but with this). I
think the Outsider has been established by numerous references  as
God, the Abrahamic God (both the Father and Jesus); when he is also
apparently identified with Dionysus, that implies that Dionysus is an
aspect of the true God. (And this idea is not totally original with
Wolfe.)

>
> I think rather than staying strictly gnostic, Wolfe's syncretic habits and the recurring theme of imitation begetting something genuine REDEEM the gnostic and pagan elements in such a way that they, too, become salvific.

Yes. I think that _Long Sun_ starts out looking like an allegory of
gnosticism, with the Outsider as the true God, and Pas as the
Demiurge. But in the course of the series it becomes clear that there
isn't a straightforward opposition between the true God and the gods
of the world; some of them can be redeemed, some may even turn out to
have been aspects of the true God all along. That's a redemption of
paganism. I'm not sure it can be called a redemption of gnosticism,
because the opposition is central to gnosticism as it's generally
understood. rather I'd call it a rejection of gnosticism by redemption
of the gnostic gods of the world (demiurge/archons).

I think the scene where Silk contemplates jumping off the airship is
significant; he thinks for a moment that the Whorl is evil and he
should leave it - a gnostic thought - but then overcomes this and
recognises that the Whorl has much good in it.

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net