vanished people=hieros

David Stockhoff · 11 Nov 2011, 17:30 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:30:21 -0500
Subject: (urth) vanished people=hieros
In-Reply-To: <4EBD4E4E.4090201 at gmail.com>
References: <SNT123-W434F12B0B1FC6DACA2C73ACFDC0 at phx.gbl>
	<06D528FF886241E4A6C0E2DB9A4EB6E5@Rover>	<4EBD42CD.8060803 at verizon.net>
	<4EBD4E4E.4090201 at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EBD5BAD.20106 at verizon.net>

On 11/11/2011 11:33 AM, James Wynn wrote:
>
>> On 11/11/2011 8:13 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
>>> *From:* Lee Berman
>>> Sure, Orion rises in the east. But not at dawn, if it wants to be 
>>> visible.
>>
>> David Stockhoff wrote:
>> Not at dawn.
>> BEFORE dawn.
>
> The thing is, if he has risen, he is not visible if he is still in the 
> East. I really dislike the visual aesthetics here. I'll ask Mr. 
> Khayyam what his intention was if I see him at the next convention.
> ;-)

You may be better off asking Fitzgerald, I think! The fact that it seems 
to be entirely his invention renders the point almost moot. But I 
finally pulled up Stellarium 9.1 to prove my point:

At temperate latitudes (Philadelphia through Kabul), in early July 2112 
Orion will begin to rise with Venus and the sun, not after. From 
mid-July to mid-August, Venus will precede both and Orion will have a 
good hour or two of visibility before the sun vanishes them both. During 
this period the sun moves away from Orion, granted. By September Orion 
has the night to itself, is less close to the sun when the sun rises, 
and Venus has moved on.

There is therefore a point in time at least where Venus rises, Orion 
rises after it as though holding it up, is clearly visible, and then the 
sun rises very near them, rendering them invisible. You would only need 
a minute or two to watch this happen.

I certainly don't argue that even this version of the poem/stanza is 
entirely literal. The Hunter is implicit in the night sky if you know he 
comes, so there needs to be no exact arrangement of elements. Venus may 
rise with Orion only rarely, for all I know. But it's not like the image 
is impossible---not at all.

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