vanished people=Hieros

Gerry Quinn · 12 Nov 2011, 19:32 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: gerry at bindweed.com (Gerry Quinn)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:32:06 -0000
Subject: (urth) vanished people=Hieros
In-Reply-To: <4EBEB059.6070806 at verizon.net>
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	<4EBEB059.6070806 at verizon.net>
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From: David Stockhoff 

> > > And where is the rising sun in the poem? It is not
> > > mentioned anywhere---there is no "rising" depicted whatsoever. You have
> > > inferred it without realizing it. Where is the sun itself? Nowhere in
> > > the poem at all. If it is there, what does it look like? Does it have a
> > > disk? A color? A mien? It might be like a stone in one way, but
> > > otherwise there are no answers. It's not there.

> > Come on ? you are not seriously making such an argument? The Sun is 
> > not yet visible, but its rays shining on the top of a tower are.

> "The Sun is not yet visible." Thank you.

You asked ?where is the rising sun??  It is just below the horizon.  In a moment we will see it.  Already we see its light shining on the tower.  It is Orion that is nowhere mentioned, nowhere visible, and nowhere implied except for your invalid paint-by-numbers insistence that any hunter must somehow be Orion.

> > By the way, I looked up ?hunter of the east interpretation? in Google. 
> > I found two interpretations. Both agreed with me that the hunter is 
> > the Sun.

> No they don't. 

Yes they do.  One says: ?The stanza presents two arresting personifications, the first when Morning chases the stars away and the second when the sun,the Hunter of the East, lassoes the Sultan's Turret with a rope of light.? The second (speaking of a third) says ?Hunter of the East somewhat arbitrarily taken to mean "Eastern wisdom, a mighty slayer of delusion" where 'the Sun' would suffice ?.  Neither mentions Orion anywhere. 

> I told you the sun is the Hunter of the East. I told you 
> HOW he is the Hunter of the East and how it derives from the 
> just-vanished Orion, who is the original Hunter of the East. 

This is turning into gibberish.  You started off by insisting that the Hunter is Orion, and  I told you that the Hunter is the Sun.  Now you are trying to make out that yes, okay, the Hunter is the Sun, but the Sun is somehow really Orion. The Hunter is the Sun, period.  Orion is not involved here anywhere. 

> The night 
> hunter becomes the day hunter. Do you read posts in their entirety? Do 
> you have an explanation for how the sun is the hunter? No, it's "just so."

I did explain it, though it barely needs an explanation.  the Sun has thrown a noose of light around the tower.  The poet sees it as capturing the tower, i.e, hunting it.  The Hunter of the East, in fact, as distinct from any other hunter such as Orion.

- Gerry Quinn
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