Father Inire

David Stockhoff · 02 Dec 2011, 20:46 · from 2011-December.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:46:10 -0500
Subject: (urth) Father Inire
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W31B5B9A4618A76826A0700CFB60 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W31B5B9A4618A76826A0700CFB60 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4ED93912.1010609 at verizon.net>

On 12/2/2011 3:04 PM, Lee Berman wrote:
>> David Stockhoff: I think incest is meaningful but that doesn't mean it must occur, much less always.
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> I agree.
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>
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> Severian's travels resemble those of a clueless Greek hero like
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> Oedipus, stumbling into situations of which he doesn't understand the
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> significance. Oedipus had sex with his mother, an act that defined him.
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> If he had sex with other women too, that does not make him any less of
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> a motherf..well, you know. A pattern of incest among Severian's mates
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> does not require that all his mates were family members.

And Oedipus wasn't the only Greek hero who bumbled around through his 
career. Heracles was not much better.
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>
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>> ....That would make Apheta a prime candidate, but that turns the
>> theory on its head.
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> I'll disagree. Severian's sex with Apheta might be a positive clue. Also
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> the fact that Apheta did not enjoy the sex (kinda like siblings Typhon and
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> Echidna? Now there was a crappy marriage for sure).

Agreed. Their mating seems quite alchemical in its result, just not 
incestuous in form. Unless she *looked like* Severa, which would then be 
false alchemy. Hidden false alchemy!
> Apheta does not seem to have been born on Urth with Severian and she doesn't seem to have been a witch nor even had a name before she met Severian. Moreover, the concept of a missing twin to Severian named Severa was developed in the first four books, ostensibly a fait accompli. It would have been quite unfair of Wolfe to dangle Severa at us then only show her in an unplanned additional volume.

That's what I meant by "turns on its head." It doesn't work for Apheta 
to *be* Severa. However, if there *is* a Severa and Sev is *not* to mate 
with her, it might make sense that he would engage in ritual holy mating 
with someone else *instead of* Severa, a mating that would produce a 
real effect vs a presumably false effect.

Note: This line of thought, stretched as it is, pretty much requires 
Severa to be Merryn (unmated) and not Jolenta (mated).
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>> If Briah is a gnostic/fallen universe where beings enact meaningless
>> rituals in hopes of connection with the Divine......
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> I don't see it quite this way. Briah is a gnostic universe but retarded not fallen. Actually, I think Briah is rising, but just a lot more slowly than our unverse. We got our Flood at the dawn of civilization and Christ at 1 A.D. Briah doesn't get its Flood until the equivalent of many thousands of years into our future. And Briah has glimmers but has not yet achieved a Christ when the story ends. Still spiritually polytheistic and nature-god oriented. 		 	   		

That's pretty much what I meant. Unenlightened, groping at shadows.

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