Severa

Larry Miller · 03 Dec 2011, 22:32 · from 2011-December.txt.gz

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From: decanus1284 at gmail.com (Larry Miller)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 17:32:26 -0500
Subject: (urth) Severa
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W6371207C738D03BA4E873CFB70 at phx.gbl>
References: <SNT123-W6371207C738D03BA4E873CFB70 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CADQR0GrSXORafrR1A7YFJT8Nq53UDEhX76GWAPa5PdrvXx1OnA at mail.gmail.com>

I may be wrong but I remember Jolentas hair being described as
Red-Gold. Red as we know is the color of the Pelerines who can be
called witches.  And that may also provide a connection with
Catherine.

On 12/3/11, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Then there is Agia. There are a couple converging lines of evidence that
>>> she is Severian's cousin.
>
>
>
>>Gerry Quinn: What evidence?
>
>
> It wouldn't be evidence for you, Gerry. You have spent 2 or 3 years here
>
> demonstrating that your definition of that word is "supports my own
> beliefs".
>
> Your demonstration of this skewed definition also includes taking what
>
> all other posters call evidence and relabeling it as "rubbish" or
>
> "nonsense" or "ridiculous, mindless, unthoughtout, bizzare...etc. etc.".
> There is
>
> no point in responding to such a request from you. Your rejoinder regarding
>
> the ideas of others is completely predictable. The only variation in your
> posts
>
> is which derrogatory term for others you will use this time.
>
>
>
>>The waitress wasn?t an actress.
>
>
>
> Correct. Nobody said she was. What was said was, "Jolenta was an actress",
> suggesting
>
> that is likely a stage name. You knew that. You were just playing dumb
> again. I
>
> warned you that trick doesn't work already, so why try it?
>
>
>
>>However, I think you have inadvertently hit on something that indicates she
>> was never
>
>>a witch.
>
>
>
> Heh! You made me laugh with that one, Gerry! Nothing inadvertent there.
> Sorry if that
>
> takes some of the pats off your own back.  I was aware of Palaemon's
> explanation of the
>
> guild when I put the quote from the waitress in and the ambiguous nature of
> that clue in
>
> regard to her origin. As others here recognize, that statement might lend
> support and might
>
> also undercut the idea that she had been a witch.
>
>
>
> Gerry, I know this idea is completely alien to you, but I am not here to
> promote and
>
> defend my own view of WOlfe's work. I am here to discuss them. So, unlike
> you I am
>
> completely willing to present all the evidence I find on a topic of
> discussion. I do
>
> not deliberately exclude evidence which doesn't support my idea. See my
> discussion with
>
> Jeff over Rudesind's height for an example.
>
>
>
>>larry miller- Why do you think Merryn is Severa?  Just because she is a
>> witch?  I
>>think this is the biggest red herring in the book.
>
>
>
> I agree, though the secret of the Inhumi is pretty close. There are a some
> really deep and
>
> intriguing mysteries in WOlfe's books and to think he simply gives the
> complete answer to
>
> us in an obvious way is an assumption for a different sort of WOlfe reader
> than you and me.
>
>
>
>>> How do we know Severian's real name?
>
>
>>yeah Ive thought about that too but not even Wolfe is that sneaky.
>
>
>
> It doesn't matter. Even if the guild named him instead of his mother, the
> text still tells us
>
> to question why they picked a brother-sister name.
>
>
>
>>David stockhoff: Good eye. But a witch who recognizes a torturer outside
>> the Citadel might not say
>>so;
>
>
>
> We have some evidence regarding this- Upon their meeting, Merryn comments on
> "this man in fuligin".
>
> The Cumaean explains, "he is but a torturer". Is Merryn, a Citadel resident,
> really so ignorant?
>
> Perhaps.  Severian remembers running an errand for the Torturers. They
> apparently don't remember
>
> him. And he is dressed as an apprentice then, not in fuligin, but why does
> Merryn not know what
>
> fuligin means? I take this as evidence that the accidental nature of the
> seance meeting is a complete
>
> sham. The Stone Town moves to place itself in certain travellers' paths.
> They know who Severian is
>
> and wanted him there all along.
>
>
>
> Further ambiguous evidence: in the appendix on social classes, Jolenta is
> listed as part of the
>
> "commonality" while Severian and other Citadel residents are listed as
> "servants of the throne".
>
> But it also says servants of the throne are drawn from the commonality.
> Thus, the waitress is
>
> part of the commonality due to her occupation, but there is a loophole which
> could allow her to
>
> have formerly been a servant of the throne.
>
>
>
>>Any idea what her coloring was before Talos transformed her?
>
>
>
> She is a thin woman with straggling hair. The lack of information regarding
> her hair color is
>
> interesting, as Wolfe seems later to reveal it through the odd revelation of
> her pubic hair
>
> resembling a downy chick (i.e. golden). 		 	   		
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