Gummed-Up Works or Got Lives?

David Stockhoff · 18 Dec 2011, 16:09 · from 2011-December.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:09:47 -0500
Subject: (urth) Gummed-Up Works or Got Lives?
In-Reply-To: <BFDA7381D0234F6EB6507D236F84DCCA@Rover>
References: <SNT123-W50A9FF8908A2C4EB5FA2CACFA30 at phx.gbl><37C4859FAD55407DBA8779047C8C609B@Rover><4EEAA211.7070705 at verizon.net><6A0F475423584142B0FA666A0E93F682@Rover><4EEAB8C6.100 at verizon.net><5054BA56E99A4B28A66D90C447EEEE44@Rover><4EED2143.9010706 at verizon.net><B313F102F2A041C7A3735F37FC4B34E4@Rover><4EED3115.20902 at verizon.net><D443B595307C4CB79D5809B6C766449C@Rover><4EED383D.2070000 at verizon.net><9DC7581DE8B242049D6A8A31A25F9185@Rover><4EED46F9.8080601 at verizon.net><8101814B5E9B4CB18A26CADF6D32487E@Rover>
	<4EED55BC.4040200 at verizon.net>
	<BFDA7381D0234F6EB6507D236F84DCCA@Rover>
Message-ID: <4EEE104B.3070305 at verizon.net>

On 12/18/2011 10:51 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
> *From:* David Stockhoff <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
> > On 12/17/2011 9:15 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> > > > But they also tell us what's being subverted and thus a clue
> > > > as to why. It's not a question of "if Dorcas is Sleeping Beauty, 
> then
> > > > who's the witch"? There is no poisoned apple. But if there is a 
> witch,
> > > > it's Severian.
>
> > > The story of Sleeping Beauty involves witches and poisoned apples 
> now?
> > > It only remains for Lee to propose that Father Inire is all of the
> > > Seven Dwarfs. But anyway, that error is not important, but it points
> > > to the real error: you neither know nor care whether you are talking
> > > about Sleeping Beauty or Snow White, because you are just riffing on
> > > stuff in your head which has completely lost contact with the text.
>
> > You keep getting stuck on this, Gerry. There is no poisoned apple in
> > BNS, therefore there is nothing to clearly reference either story. The
> > witch and the sleeping woman are the key parts. There is no 1:1
> > relationship.
> You are flailing desperately, in my opinion.

Says the little man behind the curtain.
> Severian was certainly not responsible for Dorcas?s death, so placing 
> him as the witch (or wicked fairy, in the canonical version of 
> Sleeping Beauty) is absurd.


Christ, Gerry. He raised her from the dead. No one said he was wicked.
> If you want to change every aspect of the story, and even what story 
> it is, what is the point of your argument? When you say ?there is no 
> 1:1" relationship?, then, given the sort of relationships you are 
> apparently willing to propose, you are tacitly admitting that there is 
> no relationship at all. Because admitting the sort of relationships 
> you are proposing now would imply that every book should be discussed 
> as if it reconstituted the Library of Babel.

Please be specific, or no one will know what you mean.
> There is a vague resonance with Sleeping Beauty when a beautiful woman 
> is resurrected. Just as there is a vague resemblance between Dr. Talos 
> and a stuffed fox. Discussing the stuff that you are suggesting is 
> meaningful ? for example the ?enchantment? you claimed Dorcas is under 
> ? is the equivalent of discussing the horsehair Talos is stuffed with, 
> and what colour horse it came from.

Have you ever considered introducing the concept of figurative language 
to your programming? You are a marvel of AI engineering, but your 
insistence on tackling literature that your analytical routines can't 
handle betrays you. Or are you just trying to become human, like Data on 
Star Trek?

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