S&S vs. SF in BotNS

Dave Lebling · 23 Dec 2011, 14:52 · from 2011-December.txt.gz

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From: dlebling at hyraxes.com (Dave Lebling)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:52:56 -0500
Subject: (urth) S&S vs. SF in BotNS
In-Reply-To: <6850562C3B1A4D9BA2DED54E5910C581@Rover>
References: <SNT123-W6264EC536A69C6A6153331CFAA0 at phx.gbl><4EF414CF.3000700 at clueland.com>
	<4EF462C8.909 at gmail.com> <6850562C3B1A4D9BA2DED54E5910C581@Rover>
Message-ID: <4EF495C8.90405 at hyraxes.com>

http://blogearth.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/electron-filmed-for-the-first-time/

I have seen a photo of an electron. The link above is one of many that 
will enable you to see one for yourself.

-- Dave Lebling

On 12/23/2011 8:44 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:
> *From:* Ant?nio Pedro Marques <mailto:entonio at gmail.com>
> Jeff Wilson wrote (23-12-2011 05:42):
>
> > > You're overlooking reproducible results. Preindustrial crop 
> hexings are
> > > not reproducible by witches, while electrons are tamed well enough 
> that
> > > we can reproduce Zeus-strength lightning as necessary and prevent 
> it from
> > > striking houses when it occurs naturally.
>
> > It may be so, but we could do much of that with classical science. 'Our
> > Theory of Gravitation is as good as perfect', ironical or not, was 
> written
> > in the first half of the 19th century. 'We' got to the Moon without the
> > fancy computers and mobile communications of today. Current science 
> may be
> > impresssive in comparison to that of just a few decades ago, but it 
> doesn't
> > follow that it has a technological import of the same magnitude. At 
> the end
> > of the day, it works better than praying to Zeus, but so does Classical
> > Physiscs.
> Yes, but classical physics *is* part of modern science.  Our 
> understanding is deeper now, but we still use Newtonian gravity over 
> 99% of the time because the equations are simpler and it's more than 
> accurate enough for most purposes.  The same applies to Newtonian 
> dynamics; 99% of the time you don't have to care about relativistic 
> mass increase with velocity.  A million years from now, Newtonian 
> gravity will still be applicable if there are humans on Earth.  
> [Newton himself knew, by the way, that his theory wasn't quite there 
> -- he accepted instantaneous action at a distance most reluctantly 
> because he could find no way around it.  That's been fixed now, though 
> general relativity is still under persistent challenge (even special 
> relativity is under an unusual degree of challenge at the moment from 
> these neutrino experiments).  If GR is superseded, it will still be 
> useful in many domains though, because it's a safe bet that the 
> equations of the more accurate theory will be even harder.]
> Zeus and witches are an entirely different kettle of fish.
> > For the common man, it's a matter of having access to services.
> > This is a matter in which I find myself in complete agreement with 
> Lee -
> > '[y]ou have never seen an electron and you have not done original 
> research
> > on the subject', '[e]lectricity seems to work so you believe the 
> experts who
> > tell you how it works' express very well my own view on the subject.
> The experts don't just tell me how it works, they produce extensive 
> and consistent mathematical models covering a wide range of domains 
> and invite me to pick holes in them, or carry out any experiment that 
> might invalidate them.
> Lee is spouting a tired old argument which uses cultural relativism to 
> assail all notions of objective truth.
> - Gerry Quinn
>
>
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