The Wizard

Daniel Petersen · 06 Mar 2012, 14:35 · from 2012-March.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com (Daniel Petersen)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:35:09 +0000
Subject: (urth) The Wizard
In-Reply-To: <CAM0v-i5vLrLXpaued2LtKwXMgVMX-GJLwkzH-8yWtE7D3sHMzg at mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT123-W457935D3BDC7D5A9B64451CF510 at phx.gbl>
	<CAM0v-i5vLrLXpaued2LtKwXMgVMX-GJLwkzH-8yWtE7D3sHMzg at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGB0RZ4D6q0Rtgm7S4vDk16sZTHx9txU=BjyPCm1Xqy4VyWRsQ at mail.gmail.com>

Aw, come on, guys.  It's not too hard to know which is 'primary' for
Wolfe.  And that doesn't have to take away from the enjoyment of reading
for those who disagree with Wolfe.  I don't try to press atheist writers
into a non-atheist reading when I know that's 'primary' for them.  It is,
of course, legitimate to play on those 'secondary' possibilities and
resonances if that's what interests you more.  But it's not all subjective,
right?

-DOJP

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Antonin Scriabin
<kierkegaurdian at gmail.com>wrote:

> > Perhaps we can all agree that what we see as "primary" might say more
> about who we are
>
> than what is clear in the books.
>
> Couldn't agree more, and I might add that this is one of the reasons I so
> enjoy Wolfe.  It is one thing to just stuff a story full of clever
> allusions and references, it is quite another to do so and yet create a
> world rich with potential, that gets readers to think and conjure up their
> own interpretations and inferences.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> >Dan'l Danehey-Oakes:  Not to agree with Gerry or anything, but clearly
>> the Christian
>> >allusions are primary.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps we can all agree that what we see as "primary" might say more
>> about who we are
>>
>> than what is clear in the books. Allusions to pagan mythology and
>> Christianity are
>>
>> both there. So which is more important?
>>
>>
>>
>> The pagan and gnostic references do seem more primary to me. As I see it,
>> the references
>>
>> to Christianity are about the trappings of the church, not Christ
>> himself. There are
>>
>> roods and gammdions and signs of addition. There are various forms of the
>> eucharist and
>>
>> sermons and confessions and so on.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is even a guy who resembles Jesus. But I see no Christ. I see no
>> christian salvation
>>
>> offered by anyone; not Severian, not Silk, not SilkHorn, not even The
>> Outsider. All  these
>>
>> guys seem to offer is material salvation not spiritual. Salvation means
>> surviving. Moving
>>
>> to a different planet or having your planet reformed or something like
>> that
>>
>>
>>
>> And that is the differece between, say, Moses and Jesus Christ. And
>> perhaps the difference
>>
>> between the brutal Old Testament demiurge and the forgiving New Testament
>> God. Moses led
>>
>> the chosen to a Promised Land. Christ led (and leads) to an entirely new
>> plane of existence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wolfe talks about the Sun Series taking place in an alternate universe
>> than our own and I
>>
>> think this is the reason he needed that device. He could not build a
>> futuristic gnostic
>>
>> monster and horror filled world in a universe where Jesus Christ has
>> already appeared.
>> Once Christ has been here, that's it. Christian salvation becomes an
>> option. An option
>>
>> seemingly unavailable to anyone in Briah.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Urth Mailing List
>> To post, write urth at urth.net
>> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20120306/1691caa9/attachment.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net