Science Fiction and Fantasy Question

Nathan C. Tresch · 15 Apr 2012, 19:14 · from 2012-April.txt.gz

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From: nathanctresch at gmail.com (Nathan C. Tresch)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:14:41 -0700
Subject: (urth) Science Fiction and Fantasy Question
In-Reply-To: <4F8AB549.8000707 at irit.fr>
References: <CAPPJnnYzNfREqmqYxMZTbWuF2WSPv=eg1nc56Gfg+gqYPRsSrQ at mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8AB549.8000707 at irit.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPPJnnZYuOCHLuc_sUTzdJi7H-LTq_feO2ViP9n4F2Ff9RPWHQ at mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Sergei SOLOVIEV <soloviev at irit.fr> wrote:

> IMHO, the answer is "no" -
>
> my reasons
>
> - it seems that there is on this list a (culturally determined) drive to
> identify almost everything with almost everything
> else, I do not share it;
>

Noted.


>
> - the description - a beautiful spaceship with sails - in case of
> Severian's ship - is very different, the captain is Tsadkiel,
> a king of angelic creature, the ship is a sort of messenger of a higher
> world;
>

I understand that at the time Severian was aboard the ship it had evolved
to what it was.  That doesn't imply that it couldn't have once come from
humble beginnings, as a lowly earth vessel, as Severian himself was a lowly
torturer.


>
> - it may be unique, but the story seems to be a sort of persistent legend
> among the sailors, it is presented as such;


> - by the way, why should we believe Purn? As far as I remember, she was
> sent by one of the monsters who are
> enemies of Severian and tried to kill him;
>
>
There are a great many other references to The Ship being one vehicle, I
really didn't think that this was something I'd have to document.  People
were even meeting earlier versions of themselves as they came aboard what
they thought was another ship from their own memory, if I recall correctly.
 If this is really something I need to support I'll paste more quotes.


> - last, but not least, the attempt to identify the Whorl with Tsadkiel's
>  ship will destroy one of important dramatic
> oppositions in the Solar cycle, where Typhon (Pas) who built it,  is a
> kind of Luciferian or Antichrist figure - it
> will destroy the opposition between the ship created by a human ruler who
> wants to be god, and messengers
> of higher universes.
>

And my interpretation of the transformation of the Whorl->The Ship isn't
incongruous with that.  The series embodies transformation and the rebirth
of the Christ figure in Severian, why not a transformation over the years
from something made to serve a self-worshipping narcisist to its opposite,
a self-sacrificing higher being?


>
> One extra remark - to me, from the point of view of literary evolution of
> Gene Wolfe, the
> Tsadkiel ship seems a possible development of the idea of the ship in
> "Silhouette".
>

Yeah, I think that the ship in Silhouette could also be a stage of
development of the Whorl->The Ship.


>
> Regards
>
> Sergei Soloviev
>
>
>
> Nathan C. Tresch wrote:
>
>> I posted this question to this site, and I was wondering if anyone here
>> had any input?
>> Is the Whorl also the Universal Transport in the Solar Cycle by Gene
>> Wolfe?
>> http://scifi.stackexchange.**com/q/14856/5828?sem=2<http://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/14856/5828?sem=2>
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-- 
Per Aspera, Ad Astra
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