Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower

David Stockhoff · 07 Feb 2013, 16:57 · from 2013-February.txt.gz
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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 11:57:27 -0500
Subject: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
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Why "almost certainly"? Don't tell me you doubt evolution!

On 2/7/2013 11:48 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
> The assimilation of devoured prey memories is almost certainly a product
> of genetic engineering by the Yesodis, if not Father Inire himself, to use
> the analept to produce a truly enlightened despot.
>
> On Thu, February 7, 2013 09:57, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>> Ah, ok.  The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a way.
>> Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff
>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
>>> difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice
>>> of
>>> the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological
>>> puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>
>>>> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>>> selves---with
>>>> the act of drinking"
>>>>
>>>> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the
>>>> inhumi would remain beasts as well.  The alzabo and inhumi seem very
>>>> similar in this regard as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff
>>>> <dstockhoff at verizon.net<mailto:
>>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net**>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring
>>>>      notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>>>>      identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>>>>      memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>>>>      action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
>>>>      even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
>>>>      idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>>>>      selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>>>>      separate acts of the sacrament).
>>>>
>>>>      With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as
>>>>      well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
>>>>      that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>>>>      Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
>>>>      This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,
>>>>      with all its implications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>          Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:
>>>>
>>>>          Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from
>>>>          your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the
>>>>          blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
>>>>          lived with the mind it took from yours."
>>>>
>>>>          This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>>>>          encounters, that eats the family he stays with.  The father, I
>>>>          believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>>>>          alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>>>>          home.  There are few shared dynamics in these scenes.  For
>>>>          example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>>>>          human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
>>>>          is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via
>>>>          Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son
>>>>          (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of
>>>>          the alzabo, addressing him) in the other.  Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>          There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of
>>>>          "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>>>>          mechanics are pretty clear.  Is there any meaningful
>>>>          connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>>>>          flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one
>>>>          that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>>>>          <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>>>>          <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com
>>>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>**>>
>>>>
>>>>          wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>              --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>>>>          /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>>
>>>>              <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>          <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>/* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>          <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>>>                  <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>          <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
>>>>                  To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
>>>>          <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>>>>                  <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>>>>
>>>>          <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>>>>
>>>>                  Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>>>>          Does this
>>>>                  suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?
>>>>
>>>>                  Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person
>>>> you
>>>>                  mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's
>>>>                  stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
>>>>          words)
>>>>
>>>>              No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one
>>>> of
>>>>              which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to
>>>>          lie in
>>>>              it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly
>>>>              establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>>>>          Typhon and
>>>>              Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
>>>>          ascribe
>>>>              only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>>>>              As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"
>>>>          on the
>>>>              high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of
>>>>          maimed
>>>>              Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>>>>          receded, or
>>>>              at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>>>>           Unless it is
>>>>              just a Vanished Person ...
>>>>
>>>>
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