Urth Digest, Vol 111, Issue 17‏

Lee · 02 Dec 2013, 20:24 · from 2013-December.txt.gz

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From: severiansola at hotmail.com (Lee)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 15:24:22 -0500
Subject: (urth) =?windows-1256?q?Urth_Digest=2C_Vol_111=2C_Issue_17=FE?=
Message-ID: <BLU175-W15B7A5430BC8575084C421CFEA0 at phx.gbl>

>David Stockhoff: With no need to stop and put energy into a new generation, 
>one could live forever---but without change. It is non-iterative, noncyclical, 
>non-individual.

I agree, this is the clear message of 5HoC, the original novella. But in the 
two following sections, the dark possibility of our species being taken over by a 
more rapidly evolving (shape-shifting) parasite species seems to overwhelm that initial 
message.

I think that message is restated with the Inhumi in Short Sun but this time with a bit
more hope that we might resist.

>Recall the old cliches of angels wanting to be mortal so they could feel love, as well as 
>experience the fear of death.

I think more than one Star Trek episode was devoted to that premise. One (pertinently) 
substituting Greek gods for angels, another, (also pertinently) an advanced race of 
superhuman parasitic aliens who hitch a ride and comandeer the Enterprise.

>Asexual monsters do not experience the universe in this way. Whereas the gods of the 
>Urthiverse grow forever and become huge (like Baldanders tried to do), humans experience 
>the potential for transcendence as well as evolution. The old Earth gods did have lives 
>and families (all made up but based on human reality, just as were the gods of the Whorl), 
>but as immortals they don't change, don't advance, don't evolve. Whatever powers one might 
>gain from living forever they are nothing compared with ours. (Cue music.)

Agreed. Tolkein recognized this as the human advantage over elves also. A consideration I
don't think Gene Wolfe missed in his Tolkein fandom.

>Seawrack is quite capable of sexuality, although almost surely without the ability to actually 
>give birth.

A very good observation. And an incisive look at the way men usually view their mistresses, in 
contrast to their wives.

>The Ascians reproduce sexually but have lost almost everything else through their imitation of 
>Abaia, as far as humans can lose their humanity.

Asexual reproduction as an analog to human communism/socialism?  Interesting thought. Will 
Obamacare stunt our growth as a species? (j/k)

>As you note, Abaia's sexuality is unclear, but all we have is a pronoun and the overtly feminine 
>gender of his "brides," who themselves do not appear to reproduce (with whom would they?) except 
>perhaps parthenogenetically, but they do keep growing. Unlike Seawrack.

I think Seawrack (as a siren) was specifically grown to serve as a sexual attractant to human
males.

Undines say they will continue to grow until they are able to mate with Abaia. This is almost but
not quite in keeping with the most classic example of parthenogenetic reproduction, that being 
the phylum of Rotifers.

Rotifer females happily clone themselves over and over in good conditions. But when their
environment becomes stressful they start producing both male and female offspring who mate
and produce diverse offspring, some of which will survive the stress.

Perhaps this is the model Wolfe was drawing upon. Our Megatherian types bud off offspring as
needed. But perhaps something stressful happened causing Typhon and Echidna to actually have
sexual congress and diverse offspring. They certainly don't seem to have a relationship based
on love.

>As a side note, "venant" as a name apparently would mean "He Is Coming."

Which phrase calls to mind another story where a supernatural being sacrificed His only son
for the sake of humanity...

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