Baptism and Confirmation: Shadow of the Torturer: Chapter I

Brad Henry · 22 Aug 2014, 14:31 · from 2014-August.txt.gz

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From: bradhenry101 at gmail.com (Brad Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:31:50 -0400
Subject: (urth) Baptism and Confirmation: Shadow of the Torturer:
	Chapter I
In-Reply-To: <CAF1072zBQeDCid=RVOjU1SQOVWHavJz9q28=hP=yxWqVquoPTQ at mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1408656772.26213.urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net>
	<NAP59V$7D843FBF6D781ACA66DA167FDA01A0E3 at katamail.com>
	<CAF1072zBQeDCid=RVOjU1SQOVWHavJz9q28=hP=yxWqVquoPTQ at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kecjv6xaEa1Fp0wZWj16xgr4z4vn+SuV4jA4FGFzxCWr1eiQ at mail.gmail.com>

For what its worth, this description is very close to both the New
Testament (baptised into christ's death, etc...) understanding of baptism
and the Catechism (that develops more fully the connection between the
noah-flood, the arc, and baptism).


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 5:25 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com> wrote:

> I like it, but there is and always has been a syncretic symbolism in new
> sun between water, healing, and death that undercuts this baptism imagery a
> bit.  It's not just baptism, it is healing coupled with death.  He heals
> the sick at Thrax in the water cataract stumbling three times with terminus
> est - water imagery is turned into both healing and death- it is the flood
> and the crucifixion of urth, renewal through drowning.  Over and over water
> is rebirth.  Not for abaia, I don't think, but the link between the flood
> of genesis and the apocalypse of eschatology. Water is always linked to
> healing, death, and resurrection from the very start and presages the flood
> of renewal.  I don't think Vodalus is important enough with his false coin
> to warrant a confirmation before sev gets his diabolical Eucharist.
>  Usually confirmation is fully adult - I wouldn't expect it right after the
> baptism unless we had an adult convert. ( Wolfe may have been, BUT ...)
>
>
> On Friday, August 22, 2014, marcobadie at katamail.com <
> marcobadie at katamail.com> wrote:
>
>>  My third post at the Urth list.
>> Thanks you, Gerry Quinn and Lee, for your comments and observations at my
>> first posts.
>>
>> My point: the double resurrection in Chapter I of Shadow of Torturer
>> states a connection between Severian and the the dark-haired woman, just
>> dead.
>>
>> Next.
>> When Severian is resurrected from water by the Undine, he is baptised in
>> the form of a baptism by immersion, unconsciously entering the congregation
>> of the subjects of Abaia.
>> In the same day, Severian is confirmed in the allegiance to Abaia when he
>> accepts the coin with the face of the Autarch from Vodalus, this time
>> consciously making definitive the choice the Undine made for him at the
>> baptism.
>> The Confirmation administered by Vodalus makes Severian  a "Soldier of
>> Abaia" (Severian thinks himself a Vodalarius). Soldier is a derivation of
>> Solidarius, Latin meaning someone who works for money. Solidare in Latin
>> means "to pay" and the Roman soldiers were paid in "Solidi". Severian
>> instead is paid in chrisos (only one).
>>
>> Later, in the Claw of Conciliator, Severian will receive the sacrament of
>> Eucharist in the form of the flesh of Thecla.
>> The succession of sacraments follows the tradition of the Eastern
>> Orthodox Church rather than the Roman Catholic Church (where Eucharist is
>> very close to Confirmation).
>>
>> Next post: Catherine and the Undine
>>
>> Marco Cecchini, from Italy (sorry for my sloppy english).
>>
>
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