You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and genesis

Lee · 09 Sep 2014, 19:52 · from 2014-September.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: severiansola at hotmail.com (Lee)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:52:09 -0400
Subject: (urth) You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and
	genesis
Message-ID: <BLU175-W5173E30D4E82B610DFA5FBCFCE0 at phx.gbl>

>Gerry Quinn: Thecla's sister Thea is an exultant, so perhaps not of the 

>common populace, but she is aware of the fact that 'present' meant 'now' and 
>'gift' in English.  I assume she learned it in history class.

Good example. Thea explains that Urth was "renamed" that during the period when men

"sailed between the stars, leaping from galaxy to galaxy" which, given Tzadkiel's

ship, (which might be the only ship), might offer them exposure to the next

universe in which Earth exists.

Vodalus contradicts her, claiming that Urth had been named so since the "utmost

reaches of antiquity".

At the least I think Wolfe is sowing some ambiguity here on whether Urth is in 

Earth's past or future.

>And of course, 'The Wonders of Urth and Sky' contains certain stories 
>clearly deriving in part from Earthly myths.

This book unequivocally contains tales from beyond Urth and thus may have

absorbed some content from Earth in the next universe.. Rudyard Kipling and Squanto 

are almost certainly of Earth origin. As noted in a previous post, I think Wolfe

wants us to consider that some of our Earthly legends (like Abaia and Typhon)

may have been bled over from the previous iteration of Urth.

>If we are to consider the Long Sun cosmology - though I don't think 
>that's the strongest of sources in terms of what Wolfe had in mind when 
>writing New Sun), clearly the Outsider is a fairly Christian version of 
>the Aramaic god (we may infer that the name Outsider has resonance in 
>the enclosed world of the Whorl).  Jesus throwing the moneylenders of of 
>the temple is mentioned, as is a distorted version of the Eden myth - 
>and there is also a reference to Allah.

Again I would ask why The Outsider is not more explicitly identified as the 

Judeo-Christian God, Jehovah. Why is he more explicitly associated with 

Dionysus?

Briah being a pre-Christian universe is my explanation.

As has also been discussed before, the presence of a Jesus-like character is

different from the presence of a Christ. Same explanation.

Severian is a "Christ-like" character, that much seems established. The problem

for me, is that if it is so, what happened to Christ? How could his

salvation ever vanish from Urth?  Why would another Flood be necessary? Why do we only 

see Urth get an imperfect, paganish Christ-like version in Severian?

Urth and Briah being a different, pre-Christian iteration of Earth answers these

questions for me.

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net