You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and genesis

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 09 Sep 2014, 20:02 · from 2014-September.txt.gz

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From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 13:02:44 -0700
Subject: (urth) You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and
	genesis
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Lee:

The Outsider gives Silk a clear vision of the passion of Christ. And
Dionysus, as a dying-and-reanimated god, is generally considered a
prefigurement of Christ.



On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Gerry Quinn: Thecla's sister Thea is an exultant, so perhaps not of the
>
> >common populace, but she is aware of the fact that 'present' meant 'now'
> and
> >'gift' in English.  I assume she learned it in history class.
>
>
> Good example. Thea explains that Urth was "renamed" that during the period
> when men
>
> "sailed between the stars, leaping from galaxy to galaxy" which, given
> Tzadkiel's
>
> ship, (which might be the only ship), might offer them exposure to the next
>
> universe in which Earth exists.
>
>
> Vodalus contradicts her, claiming that Urth had been named so since the
> "utmost
>
> reaches of antiquity".
>
>
> At the least I think Wolfe is sowing some ambiguity here on whether Urth
> is in
>
> Earth's past or future.
>
>
>
> >And of course, 'The Wonders of Urth and Sky' contains certain stories
> >clearly deriving in part from Earthly myths.
>
>
> This book unequivocally contains tales from beyond Urth and thus may have
>
> absorbed some content from Earth in the next universe.. Rudyard Kipling
> and Squanto
>
> are almost certainly of Earth origin. As noted in a previous post, I think
> Wolfe
>
> wants us to consider that some of our Earthly legends (like Abaia and
> Typhon)
>
> may have been bled over from the previous iteration of Urth.
>
>
>
> >If we are to consider the Long Sun cosmology - though I don't think
> >that's the strongest of sources in terms of what Wolfe had in mind when
> >writing New Sun), clearly the Outsider is a fairly Christian version of
> >the Aramaic god (we may infer that the name Outsider has resonance in
> >the enclosed world of the Whorl).  Jesus throwing the moneylenders of of
> >the temple is mentioned, as is a distorted version of the Eden myth -
> >and there is also a reference to Allah.
>
>
> Again I would ask why The Outsider is not more explicitly identified as the
>
> Judeo-Christian God, Jehovah. Why is he more explicitly associated with
>
> Dionysus?
>
>
> Briah being a pre-Christian universe is my explanation.
>
>
> As has also been discussed before, the presence of a Jesus-like character
> is
>
> different from the presence of a Christ. Same explanation.
>
>
> Severian is a "Christ-like" character, that much seems established. The
> problem
>
> for me, is that if it is so, what happened to Christ? How could his
>
> salvation ever vanish from Urth?  Why would another Flood be necessary?
> Why do we only
>
> see Urth get an imperfect, paganish Christ-like version in Severian?
>
>
> Urth and Briah being a different, pre-Christian iteration of Earth answers
> these
>
> questions for me.
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-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
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