You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and genesis

Lee · 10 Sep 2014, 14:58 · from 2014-September.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: severiansola at hotmail.com (Lee)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:58:21 -0400
Subject: (urth) You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and
	genesis
Message-ID: <BLU175-W30A28F76993252CC6443E1CFCF0 at phx.gbl>

> To explain the Yesodi.

>Marc Aramini: Yes, we need to see the goal mankind strives toward, 

>the real point of Severian's narrative, transcendence into something 

>else and the yesodis.

As mentioned to Gerry, there doesn't seem to be any reason in Citadel

for any of the characters to be from Yesod. But the sequential universes

are in the narrative of Citadel for a reason.

Later, in UotNS we do get a sense that there are higher beings residing

in a higher universe than Severian's but not so much in the first four

books.

There is some sense of Wolfe looking to our future and making some

speculative projections. But given the total body of WOlfe's work I

find that he is far more interested in explaining our past. Urth,

as a previous iteration of Earth, does that.

Wolfe says he thinks the pagan gods were real. So why don't we find

gigantic, fossilized Zeus, Odin, Typhon, Scylla and Abaia bones? 

Because they can only be found in a previous iteration of our planet,

on urth. Why can Urth be flooded? Because, like here, it only happened

once.

>If all these characters have access to previous iterations and cycles and
>knowledge, then what is the real difference in cycles of creation and
>merely traveling through time?

As I see it, only a few mysterious, arcane Urth characters and their 

confidants have access to knowledge of Earth. The rest operate, as we do, 

with the working assumption that there is only one universe.

>God can reach through them as easily as Jonas, one would imagine.

Well, my impression is that the Increate is not actively "reaching". He, as

Pancreator, has already created all things in all times in all universes.

Travelling through time (even one moment at a time as we do) and experiencing

"change" is just an illusion for lesser beings who cannot simultaneously 

perceive more than one moment of time as it "happens".

In BotNS, Severian is a pawn who can only move one space at a time. Tzadkiel is

presumably a queen who can move multiple spaces in multiple directions (some

bishops and rooks might also be identified in the story). But the Increate is 

an entity far beyond Tzadkiel. He is all spaces and all boards everywhere.

Unlike Tzadkiel, Given his universal nature, God cannot appear to a human being 

in any comprehensible form, hence he uses various spokesmen and other media to 

deliver His messages.

>Is Christ then the only one bound into cycles?

Yes, since he takes human form, he is bound by the limits of that form. I don't

think Christ can be found in our universe AND in Briah except as "leakage".

>One would imagine the cycles would not allow such leakage of Lewis Caroll if God
>himself is limited to a particular cycle.

Lewis Carroll is in human form but God is not. It is beyond our comprehension but

it might be argued that the form of God IS the universe(s).

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net